Wigan perspectives

September 2008 update

2008-09-24T17:50:00.004+01:00

The evaluation of RE:generate's work in Wigan has been completed and is being discussed with RE:generate. A final version is due to be presented to RE:generate's trustees towards the end of October.

RE:generate will then consider how to build on the evaluation's recommendations in developing its work. Any enquiries should be directed to Stephen Kearney - email stephenkearney@regeneratetrust.com

Perspectives on regeneration: Sian Jay

2008-09-24T17:47:00.002+01:00

Sian Jay was township programme manager at Wigan Council when interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

What’s appealing to me about this particular model is the way it encourages individuals to expect more of themselves, and then for those individuals to expect more from those around them, and then for those communities to expect more from the services that they need.

Background and key challenges

We’ve always been pretty clear that Wigan is a particularly insular place and that has contributed to a worrying lack of aspiration and a sameness that doesn’t lend itself particularly well to innovation and change. While as public sector organisations I think we’re often celebrated for innovation and change, and I think that’s due and it’s valid, we don’t seem to be having that kind of impact on our communities. Wigan still remains a patriarchal society generally speaking; it remains a society that is resistant to change, to new horizons. It’s not a particularly inclusive society. It’s a very tolerant society, but that’s part of the problem – it’s tolerant of anything. It rarely finds the energy to challenge. On an individual basis our residents are really quite vociferous when things don’t go the way they want them to go, but they’re not political. They don’t naturally form themselves around issues.

Progress so far

At our first meeting Simon [Dale] and I left a little concerned that while we could see the benefit of what we’d heard about, it felt a little as if the intent was to parachute that in without taking account of the context that it would land in, and we felt that was potentially problematic. So we spent a little more time at our second meeting explaining the context and exploring with Regenerate whether the best option was to embed the work within that context, within the structure of the LSP in particular… the alternative was in our view equally valid, and that was to be arm’s length from the piece of work and not try and embed it, with an expectation that it would embed itself at some point, but that we wouldn’t in any way try to structure or engineer that.

I’m not sure whether it’s by default or whether we agreed it without having to voice it: it appears that we’re going with the model, let’s not try and embed it and see how it embeds itself.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

Speaking for myself, I think the work is very interesting and I’m particularly interested in the listening technique. I think it’s something we could all do with more of here.

I’m still aware of the potential for things to go wrong here, because I think this is a challenging concept for Wigan, both at a grassroots level and at a decision-making level. There’s either the danger that it will make an impact no-one’s ready for, or even worse, that it won’t make an impact at all because we’re not ready to accommodate it.

[My hope is for] cultural change both within the organisations, mainly public sector, but some of the community and voluntary organisations also who offer support in terms of community development, economic development and social development – so some cultural change within those organisations, but equally, cultural change within our communities themselves.

What’s appealing to me about this particular model is the way it encourages individuals to expect more of themselves, and then for those individuals to expect more from those around them, and then for those communities to expect more from the services that they need.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

I’m not sure I have a handle on what’s achievable. The only thing I would feel comfortable in saying is that my goal would be for there to be sufficient impact and outcome that energised people around continuing the work, because I think I understand that this is a very long term approach.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

In terms of three or four months, I think I’d want personally to be aware of where the work was up to and feel that I could describe it and explain it to someone else, and that I heard other people talking about it. There’s lots of opportunities for me to hear about this work so I’d like to hear lots of people talking about it.

If I was sitting here in three or four months’ time and was perfectly happy, I’d hear people talking about it, I’d hear people talking about it in a knowledgeable way, and I would feel that I understood myself where the work was up to.

Perspectives on regeneration: Pam Stewart (1)

2008-09-24T17:45:00.001+01:00

Pam Stewart was working as a community volunteer when first interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

You need to find out what’s going on and that in itself is the task. Once you know what’s going on you can join them together.

Background and key challenges

Plans are good, but break down at the implementation stage. There are families and individuals with entrenched problems who need help, but they are receiving it from too many uncoordinated agencies. Wigan is able to produce superb paperwork but it’s watered down when put into action.

Accountability is an issue – someone needs to carry the can. Projects need a driver to be accountable and report back, not just a group of people who don’t take personal responsibility.

I would say the key issue at the moment within the borough of Wigan is a lack of coordination. There are lots and lots of little pockets of really good work going on within areas, but what tends to happen is an area will be highlighted as a super output area or an area of deprivation, the funding will then be attached to that area, all the usual suspects chase the funding, and they all do little pockets of good work but there’s no coordination.

It’s the implementation and accountability, I think that’s where we break down. Somebody actually carrying the can and saying, right, I will be responsible for this initiative and I will drive it.

I think we are putting barriers in place and then saying let’s remove barriers. We’ve got officers in one department putting all these barriers in place, and then we’ve got officers in this department working with you to remove all these barriers, and then here you’ve got a funding officer working with you to get you the money to do it. The futility of it seems to escape people.

Progress so far

The major thing is genuine partnership working. Twenty years ago officers were parachuted in, did what they thought was wanted and went away again. Things failed because people didn’t have ownership of it. Barriers have started to break down now.

We have started to have designated areas with designated people. People don’t use jargon any more. People are happy to work with the community and for the community to take ownership of it.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

Regenerate are ideally placed – they’re coming from outside. This area tends to be quite unforgiving. I think empowerment and encouragement and their capacity to make people see outside the box will work well. They put people at ease.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

Compared to ten years ago there’s some excellent work going on, but it’s not coordinated. Once you know what’s going on you can join them together.

I would hope for a direct link between coordinated projects that are achieving outcomes. People going into training, children going into further education.

I want cohesion. When Regenerate leave here, I want the people that live in the super output areas of this borough, I want them to know what’s available to them, when it’s available to them and how they access it. Not just that one little pot that’s working in that one little estate… I want all the little pods that are working to have some interaction so that they actually link what they’re doing so that we get a better outcome – because there’s some really, really good work going on.

Engaging with people: you need to find out what’s going on and that in itself is the task. Once you know what’s going on you can join them together, and it’s making that link and being that link, but you need to find out actually what’s going on so it’s a mapping exercise.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

Mapping – we need the mapping to start the coordination.

An awareness of what’s going on. If when Regenerate leave that’s the only thing they’ll have left behind, as a member of the NRF panel that funded this I’ll be really happy in the fact that we need this piece of work to be done, but up to now nobody’s ever done it.

Perspectives on regeneration: Kevin Walsh (1)

2008-09-24T17:43:00.001+01:00

Kevin Walsh is economic partnership manager at Wigan Council. He was first interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

The thing that attracted me to it is that it would reach out into parts of the community that we’ve probably never reached and engaged with before, and hopefully we’ll then start to gain a better understanding of the low aspirations, low ambitions of people who live in Wigan. We’ve talked about it but we don’t really know why people don’t have the aspiration to get a better quality of life.

Background and key challenges

A very important by-product of our NRF programme is a community network – a delivery mechanism for projects we want to deliver in the future. This very deep community engagement Regenerate propose would be a very good delivery mechanism for LEGI.

The brief was really to create social enterprises, but Regenerate came up with this innovative approach which involved the use of community ambassadors. The ultimate goal of the project is to create community enterprises which will have a bottom line target of creating sustainable employment.

We’ve got 27,000 people classed as workless. The bulk of those are on incapacity benefit – we’ve got over 20,000 people claiming incapacity benefit. There’s obviously a greater concentration in the areas of deprivation. Our main concerns are the increasing numbers of young people claiming incapacity benefit – the 16-24 year age group is the only one that’s increasing… What is more worrying is the increasing number of people with mental health as the primary condition, and that’s gone up in the last six years from 4,400 to 7,000.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

Everything that we spend our NRF money on, we have to link back into worklessness targets. The endgame of the project is to create employment via social enterprises… We must never lose sight of the fact that within this project we have hard output targets that Regenerate have signed up to try and deliver in terms of the number of social enterprises and the number of jobs that will be created.

The thing that attracted me to it is that it would reach out into parts of the community that we’ve probably never reached and engaged with before, and hopefully we’ll then start to gain a better understanding of the low aspirations, low ambitions of people who live in Wigan. We’ve talked about it but we don’t really know why people don’t have the aspiration to get a better quality of life.

That was the point about what Regenerate would hopefully deliver – a lot of tough questions but real hard information about what are the issues in the community. The problem is we get money from various sources and put together what we think are fantastic programmes, but are they really addressing the needs within the community?

What [Regenerate] are really doing is identifying market demand for a service or product within the community, and unless you have that fundamental market demand whatever it is you put in place is not going to be sustainable.

That’s the other thing we really like about Regenerate – the fact that they said they’d go in and identify the issues, people’s needs and wants and loves and all the rest of that stuff, but out of that will come hard data that says there is a market demand for such a kind of service or such a kind of operation within that particular area.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

In a year’s time we would expect to have established community networks in specific geographic areas… We would look to have those established and for people to have gone through the training and started to develop this pyramid-style selling of community engagement. Hopefully we’ll start to see some social enterprises coming through as well.

Let’s get some hard and fast stuff to say this is actually good and works, then we’ll say: here’s the evidence to say we’ll put more people into this even though they’ve got a day job, and start to take that approach forward.

There’s a funding timeline if nothing else. I would like to think by the end of this year we do have projects identified that would be the basis for social enterprises. I suspect there may be social enterprises coming out of the woodwork before the end of this year.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

I would hope to see some tangible progress – I’m not saying results – within Scholes/Birkett Bank within three to six months of getting people trained and starting to work and starting to build up their own networks.

I would expect that they [Regenerate] would have got people through the training… that those people would have then started to be effective, would have started to disseminate the approach and training through their own networks of people and would be starting to get some depth into those communities.

In the three months after that I would like to start to see some feedback coming about the needs, the wants, the issues in those particular communities and then after than we’d be starting to say how can we meet those needs.

Perspectives on regeneration: Darren Barton (1)

2008-09-24T17:41:00.003+01:00

Darren Barton was township manager for Scholes at Wigan Council when first interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

I’d like to develop plans for the area that are really honest and bring out the character of the area and what the real issues are so we can have achievable aims over the next five or six years – I think that’s the timescale we want to look at to try and improve issues such as employment, health.

Background and key challenges

We’ve got an unusual situation with Scholes. I personally don’t think Scholes is as bad as the figures say. I think certain things skew its ranking and make it a deprived area.

There are 2,800 people living in the area and 40% of them live in high rise flats. They are many people who have worked and lived in the area all their lives. It’s very accessible. My grandparents were very happy there all their lives.

There may be small pockets of areas where people wouldn’t feel safe but when we do ask, I feel the feedback will be that it’s a good area to live in really, and people are pretty happy– why should they work when they don’t need to work, when they can survive on a relatively small amount of money?

I think other people’s opinion of Scholes and Birkett Bank may have deteriorated. I think the murder that we had a few years ago has had a psychological effect not just on the people living in the area but on other people’s view of the area.

We have the new Grand Arcade development with 1,000 jobs associated with it on the Scholes doorstep, however talking about how it could impact positively for the residents of the Scholes area, I get the feeling that currently some employers may not be interested in the ‘type’ of people that come from Scholes – they generally wouldn’t have the evidence of the qualifications, skills.

I think there’s some work that needs to be done there to bring the community together and we need to make sense of all the agencies that have been granted money to do work in the area and to make it simple, so people understand what’s going on and ensure that agencies are not duplicating work.

There are issues in and around the community centre regarding the management of it – members of the community took over responsibility for managing the community centre fairly recently and it’s tough. It’s hard work balancing the books but they know what they need to improve on.

One Voice have 1,000 members… through that organisation we could probably get to a third of the population. Half the population live in the flats, and the flats have had their own community association – Scholes Tenants and Residents Association.

Some of the young people who are the ones known to the police, had antisocial behaviour orders or warning letters, have come and engaged with all the activities put on for them through the community centre, but a small number then go out and continue to cause problems.

Progress so far

What we have done so far is agreed a structure for the way we’re going to work in future, with a core group team of 10-12 people including a majority of people from the community and key officers who will take a facilitation and support role to the group.

We have a young people’s practitioners’ group that was set up following the murder, they’ve been meeting 18 months – it’s all the agencies that would relate to young people… Practitioners include Groundwork, the youth service, drugs action team - reps who support the young people. It’s a really good group.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

I want to get a real true story for Scholes and Birkett Bank. I really want to find out what the needs are for the area, and what the aspirations if any are, because I think we’ve got in the next three or four months to be able to prove that there’s only so much we could achieve, and if there’s only so much we can achieve that’s OK. You can’t achieve the unachievable. There are a significant number of people in my mind who live in that area who are happy with their lot and wouldn’t want to change their lifestyles and wouldn’t want or see the need to engage as such.
To make the change to go and get some training and qualifications, to go and work and then earn hardly any extra money, it doesn’t make people feel that great.

I think some of the agencies in the area need to take a real responsibility in terms of getting to the people. I’d like Regenerate to be able to signpost people to services that are available to them. Things like the WIAC advisory service that can give advice to people on benefits for people in work rather than benefits for people out of work. They’re funded to cover the area but I don’t think they’re getting to the right people.

We need to look at things like training, confidence building, part time working that doesn’t affect residents’ earnings, but will get them back into work and if they want to progress further then great.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

I want good communication systems to have been set up. I want information out to the community about what’s happening in the area, but I also want officers to start addressing some of the issues we’ve got in the area to make a real push to improve things.

I’d like more people in the flats to come out of the flats, I’d like one or two of them to come and represent their community on a kind of area board, which involves all members of the community. I’d want employers to start addressing some of the issues of trying to recruit people from the local area, not people who live six or seven miles away. We need to do some work on that – we’ve contacts with the Grand Arcade management group and we need to bring them into things.

I’d like to develop plans for the area that are really honest and bring out the character of the area and what the real issues are so we can have achievable aims over the next five or six years – I think that’s the timescale we want to look at to try and improve employment, health and things like that.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

All the agencies will have a clear understanding not just of what role they’ve been given but of how it’s part of improving the lives long term of people from Scholes and Birkett Bank.

Agencies working in the area have to be aware that the young people they’re dealing with are statistically the most unemployable in the whole borough, and the work they’re all doing is to improve the confidence of those young people, but also to encourage them to take up activities that will get them into a job. That’s part of their job and we all need to do that – if we have four or five clear targets for the area that everybody, whatever they do, must have a clear link to achieving… that’s the main thing I want to achieve.

[Agencies] need to go to the flats and need to do work with people in the flats themselves. Everybody should have a clear understanding of what they’re achieving and actually reporting back as to what they’re doing.

We need communication through the core team so they feed information in and report back. The core group can then work on the ongoing plans for the area. Officers from the council, relating to the different departments, taking an increased level of responsibility in bending their services to meet need.

Perspectives on regeneration: Colin Greenhalgh

2008-09-24T17:38:00.003+01:00

Colin Greenhalgh was operations director at Groundwork Wigan and Chorley when interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

I’d like to see that the training, the understanding of communities will help to ensure the middle management layers within the council start to appreciate that the third sector and community partners can actually deliver things in a social enterprise framework.

Background and key challenges

Groundwork has been working in Wigan for 23 years. It’s been involved mainly in physical improvements but is now looking at wider issues. It has a turnover of £2m in the local area, with successful projects such as Youth Works, and a good relationship with number of communities. I think we’re seen as a trusted partner by the council.

A lot of regeneration funding – SRB, ERDF – is ending, and alternatives such as local area agreements are not ready for accessing. Groundwork’s recent Lottery bids were not successful. I’m not sure Wigan has embraced the opportunity for the third sector to get more involved in service delivery. Contracts are still price led.

Groundwork Wigan and Chorley is merging with Groundwork Lancashire West, covering a wider area. Three Youth Works projects are coming to an end, and they need a sustainable exit strategy.

A bigger challenge is that funding seems to be being pushed more and more towards super output areas. While this is right in terms of the statistics, at the same time some communities on the edge of that top 20% could miss out.

We have a number of our projects that are coming to an end this year, three Youth Works projects that have been working over three years, and what is very important is that we get a good exit from those projects and we get some sustainability - and a couple of those are not looking as sustainable as we thought they would have been from day one, so there’s some work to do there.

Progress so far

Groundwork is well established with the economic partnership in Wigan. We have been working with partners in Wigan for the last 23 years. It’s very much about building sustainable communities.

We have a good relationship with a number of communities in the Wigan area. So in terms of involvement with Regenerate we’re seen I think as a trusted partner, certainly by the council. We’re getting involved at a strategic level, we’re on the LSP, but we also deliver, so we’re not just out there talking, we’re trying to turn that into action. So obviously we’re seen as a natural link with Regenerate because of our link with communities.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

We need to know what people want, so we see the Regenerate project as being a very effective tool. When you listen to people you can take action quickly.

For us it’s about trying to maintain current levels of delivery. I’d like to see the council being able to appreciate that the third sector can deliver things in a social enterprise framework.

We’ve… put in a bid to Children in Need to get a community animator in one of our areas to link in with our Youth Works project, so we do have a belief that it can link very well, that we can work in partnership with Regenerate.

Obviously we’re about delivering quality projects and getting close to communities and to deliver that you’ve got to know what people want, and I see Regenerate as being a very effective tool, certainly in terms of the rhetoric that’s been talked about so far.

I’d like to see that the training, the understanding of communities, will help to ensure the middle management layers within the council start to appreciate that the third sector and other partners, community partners can actually deliver things in a social enterprise framework.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

I would like to think we’re well on the road to having community animators in ten local areas. Groundwork can help make it happen in Worsley Mesnes and Abram, where there are Youth Works projects.

We don’t really need a whole lot of funding to make this happen – what we need is the energy.

Regenerate can play a big part in terms of the exit solution for the Worsley Mesnes Youth Works project that will come to an end in October. I’d love to see that the project has been maintained, with the training that Regenerate have helped us pull together, and that this project is sustained by the community with some support from Groundwork.

I think the ambition initially was to get ten community animators into local areas. I would like to see us being involved to some extent, with community animators linked into Groundwork, but I don’t think it really matters, it’s about having the right people in communities and those people empowering other people and using the training they’ve been given to train other people.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

I haven’t seen enough in terms of building up trust and communication. I hope Regenerate will be seen as being a really good tool and that initial marketing has gone out to people saying that this is a really helpful tool for us in the community. We would hope to have the security of some funding for a community animator ourselves.

We’d like to make sure that Youth Works is sustainable, certainly in the Worsley Mesnes area, and that we get the right training for the right people who are going to be sustaining it.

Internally we’d love to be in a position where we’ve got the security of some funding for a community animator ourselves and we’re up and running.

You would hope that as part and parcel of that training there would be an increase in understanding of how the community works within the [Groundwork] staff who are involved in that. You would hope that increase in knowledge and understanding would then not just be passed on to communities but would also be linked in internally in the organisation and that understanding would lead to more potential opportunities for Groundwork to get engaged in regeneration.

Perspectives on regeneration: Angela Foster

2008-09-24T17:33:00.002+01:00

Angela Foster was principal funding officer at Wigan Council when interviewed in January 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

The issue in a soundbite

We need to develop our approach to neighbourhood renewal if we are going to secure sustainable change and improve the life chances of residents living within deprived areas. The Regenerate project is new to Wigan and we are hoping that it will be the catalyst to help unlock the potential in our deprived communities.

Background and key challenges

As part of the work we are doing to try and reduce the gap between the most deprived areas and the rest of the borough we are piloting different ways of working with local residents in different localities to improve service provision.

We’re keen to develop a neighbourhood management approach that moves us beyond physical improvements delivered through street scene type of initiatives - we want to do more to tackle inequalities relating to crime, education, health and economic well being.

We’re starting to change the way the Local Strategic Partnership operates and how we as the Council plan and resource service provision to help reduce the gaps - which is creating new challenges for all of us.

We’ve now got the LSP strategic partnerships thinking more about local needs and how they respond to these when planning, resourcing and commissioning service provision, and about how they identify needs and gaps in services and how they collect and use information to inform service development. But one of the things we’ve not been as good at, in my opinion anyway, is using information we get from our neighbourhoods, to inform the strategic planning processes. Part of the challenge is to rethink how we engage and consult with our communities and how we use this information to bring about improvements in our neighbourhoods.

I think we [service providers] don’t always understand what our communities say to us so we don’t always interpret things correctly. A group of young people asked for a training facility and so we gave them an IT suite, and what they wanted was gym equipment – and we thought we’d done a good job, and then wondered why they didn’t use it. It’s not just about improving consultation, it’s about us understanding better what we’re being told.

It’s also about improving communication between the strategic planning processes and localities. Decisions on service provision are complicated and take into account constraints on available resources, and increasingly the need to perform against government targets. Strategic planners don’t have a blank canvas to start with and we don’t have resources to respond to every demand placed on service provision. We also need residents to be able to do more to help themselves.

But we don’t communicate this very well and localities end up thinking their needs are being ignored. I don’t think it’s about residents misunderstanding strategic processes, it’s just difficult to communicate some of this and we’re not always given time to explain. People tend to want immediate solutions to problems - there is an expectation that service providers will deliver these solutions for them. We need to do more to improve communication and encourage residents to be more active in helping to solve some of the problems themselves.

That’s part of the challenge – how do we move the agenda forward and develop the role of localities in decision making, in a way that manages expectations realistically, and at the same time put something in place that will grow and grow and enable us to narrow the gap and sustain improvements within those communities?

Scholes is one of our most deprived neighbourhoods. In comparison to the rest, we’re dealing with high levels of worklessness and long term illness, low education standards and poor skills base. Parts of the area look really tired, whilst other parts, such as the tower blocks on the estate, have had a lot of investment in recent years and the environment has significantly improved. But they’re populated largely by an elderly population who feel more isolated and cut off and are more reliant on others who do the care and running around for them. Then we have at the other extreme a large number of young people who feel there’s nothing for them.

Working in partnership with local residents, we want to improve and develop networks, services and facilities they want and can sustain. Regenerate offers a different approach to community regeneration and actively helps residents to take action to change things. We want to see how it works and what we can achieve with it in the Scholes area of Wigan.

Progress so far

We’re developing neighbourhood management models across nine of our most deprived communities and working with different resident groups, members of the community and local practitioners to move this forward. No one area is exactly the same, they are all evolving differently.

In Scholes, we’ve been working with One Voice, which has a membership of 1,000 people. One Voice has come a long way in recent years in terms of organisation and representing views and they want to develop social enterprise to help the community help itself.

From my involvement with the One Voice group, I think they’re disappointed with the lack of opportunities to help the area to move forward because there hasn’t been any significant regeneration funding available to this area since the City Challenge programme ended in 1998. Without the funding a lot of the projects and initiatives ended and Scholes has struggled since then. One Voice has tried to do something to improve this and has developed links and liaison with different service areas, and a number of projects have been put in place in response to local needs. But they probably feel frustrated that things haven’t moved at the pace they would like and change is slow to happen.

We achieved a lot with City Challenge but didn’t manage to make a lasting difference - if we had Scholes would be thriving. We hope the Regenerate project will help service providers and residents to work differently to “transform” Scholes and create the basis for sustainable growth.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

The people living in our communities are our customers and we need to listen to what they are telling us and act on this if we want to narrow the gap.

I hope involving some of the service providers and training them in the Regenerate listening processes will help them to think differently about the way they provide and develop services or to ask different questions to find out what residents really feel about service provision and to gather information differently, so this can be shared further up the hierarchy to let senior managers know what they their customers want and can inform and improve strategic planning processes and resource allocations.

We want to engage and reach all residents including those who are hardest to reach. One Voice claim to represent the views of a large percentage of residents through their membership, but does the information they provide truly represent the concerns of all its members? Are they listening to everyone’s views and representing these accurately or are just a few people speaking on behalf of the rest? We want to test this. We’d like to involve the group in the neighbourhood work and get some of their members trained in Regenerate’s listening process so they take this into the wider community through their connections and start to collect and share information with all partners.

We hope that everybody in the community can be reached through this approach and that we will have developed an effective communication system that allows information exchange in both directions in a very simplistic and easy to manage way and I imagine it could be done very quickly.

What should be achieved after 18 months?

I would like to see local residents much more informed about how we plan our services – and service providers not seeing the community as a barrier to improvement. I want ideas to develop social enterprise to begin to happen so we can start to see activities emerge that will help to reduce inequalities and contribute to long term sustainability.

A key thing for me would be to have local planning meetings that bring residents and service providers together to discuss and talk about problems with services and what needs doing to improve the Scholes area, without them descending into arguments about little matters to the extent that nothing meaningful can be discussed and no decisions can be made.

Within a year I would like to see more people from Scholes involved in and influencing local priorities and service planning and provision. I want them to be coming forward because they feel its worthwhile coming forwards, that they have got something to say and people will listen.

What needs to be done in the next four months?

I’d like to see work progressing to set up the neighbourhood forum and meetings set up to tell residents and service providers about what we are trying to do through the Regenerate project. I expect a number of people to have participated in the training delivered through the Regenerate project and that information will be being made available to the forum as a result of the consultation processes we are adopting. I’d like the forum to have started to identify local priorities and action plans and started to commission projects and/or services to address some of this.

I would actually expect quite a volume of information to have been gathered in Scholes about what local people think, about their environment and what they would like to see happen. I would also expect to have seen a neighbourhood group set up in that area who are getting that information and beginning to make some use of it or some sense of it – not necessarily having decided exactly how to spend any money attached to it, but beginning to understand what the information is and perhaps starting to do some work on how you take such a big volume of information and start to make sense of it in terms of improvements in terms of some of the priorities for health.

Perspectives on regeneration: Stephen Kearney and Julia Olsen

2008-09-24T17:30:00.001+01:00

This summary of my interview with Stephen Kearney and Julia Olsen, Regenerate Trust, in June 2007 has been approved for publication.

Progress so far

Stephen: We’ve been working with a range of organisations and we’ve been providing them with our basic training course which is a two-day introduction to listening, and we’ve delivered one of those in Groundwork to ten of their staff, and we’ve delivered one in Scholes. We’ve been delivering the same training elsewhere to individuals that are expressing an interest in developing and creating social enterprises.

We’ve also been talking to and listening, using the [Listening Matters] process to key people in the authority area, who are involved with the established structures like the borough wide community network. We’ve also been talking to people in Higher Folds community centre.

Generally we are giving people this two day training, [and] opportunities to explore the Regenerate process and look at how they can use the process to create community enterprise - and for us creation of community enterprise comes from listening in the community and developing networks of activists, listeners, customers, clients, voters etc. The Regenerate process is quite an unusual way of working, it’s complex because communities are complex, but fundamentally and soundly it will create networks and so we are encouraging people to do this.

When we first came to Wigan one of the ideas was we would talk to people in the local strategic partnership, cross agency, cross department, that had responsibility for engagement. Now in a perfect world they would have looked out into their departments and agencies, and thought to themselves, OK, we have staff out there that have got responsibility for engagement, let’s identify those staff, bring them together into a team of 20 or 30 people and Regenerate would train those people, they would go out and use the process, and projects and enterprises would emerge as a result.

Now to a degree that’s happening – if you think about the work we’re doing with Groundwork Trust, Community Pride, which is one of their key projects, is about engaging people to take action in their community and to be proud of their community, we’re working with them quite intensively.

Youth Works, which is a Groundwork project, [is] going to work with Regenerate and we’re going to go out with their staff and their people and support them to start to develop sustainable youth work projects.

At the heart of that is the Listening Matters process. What is going to happen is we’re going to be working with their staff on the ground listening in five or six, and if we’re lucky even ten areas of Wigan.

When it comes to local communities there’s so much scepticism about initiatives, people are really suffering initiative fatigue, and we are really painstakingly having to build trust with local communities and local community representatives.

That’s having a number of impacts. I think at the slowest end of the spectrum you’ve got the project in Scholes. Now in Scholes there’s a team of up to 20 people who are sitting on a committee that has been put together to spend about £300,000. We initially offered them the process as a means of broadly developing their community from an economic, environmental, cultural and community perspective.

That committee is supposed to be grassroots led, and of course in time honoured fashion it’s mainly dominated by professionals like ourselves who have a service to deliver. Within that you’ve got three or four residents who initially were very keen on using the Listening Matters process, but my view on that is it’s a very hard process when they’re bogged down with the responsibilities of spending £300,000 and running quite a major community centre.

So even though we offered them two-day introductory training, that training was quite difficult really because Sunshine House is a very busy environment, lots of people running in and out - it’s not really conducive to sitting down in a quiet environment, being reflective and developing action plans. People were very distracted so we didn’t complete the two days. We did one day, and then we tried to follow it up with another day.

But it was very apparent to us that people for a whole range of reasons were not ready to engage in the process. So we’ve backed off there and I suppose that what we’re interested in is being really strategic with that Scholes group now. I think we’ve got to really stand back and say, how can we with Regenerate’s process help you to fulfil your goals for Scholes? One of the ways is they can put people onto a summer programme we’ve developed.

Numbers of people involved

Julia: I’m in a process of totting up all the contacts that we’ve had. What I’m not in a position to do at this point is to even link that with the networks and contacts they’ve had, we haven’t got that knowledge and it would be a bit speculative. But obviously if you’re talking to the chair or vice chair of Encompass, or the borough wide community empowerment network, you know that there are a lot of organisations [and] people being impacted through that indirectly.

In Scholes specifically eight local residents and one professional worker have done the introductory training, four came to the second day and started to apply it with their contacts and are still being supported on a regular basis to do more listening, some more actively than others.

At the point at which I looked at it last at least 29 local people have been engaged with through the listening by that little team in Scholes, which is not a large number, but then that reflects the slow uptake. My view on why it’s slow there is [that] there is a leadership that’s interested in it, and thinks and can see that there could be benefits, [but] were unnerved because of the time to do that listening work themselves.

Nor were they able to properly engage with the training. So therefore they’re not in a position to support and lead people whose capacity really does need to be built to be able to do it. They need a lot more handholding and leadership.

There’s the community empowerment network, which is a link in directly to the CVS. There’s a very interesting project: John Clarke is developing a social enterprise with 10 people with disabilities, and it’s around doing a Disability Act health checklist. [There is also] Wigan Recyling Project: There’s enthusiasm and interest, but it needs focus, I think.

There’s somebody interested in community transport. There’s Pam, who’s certainly linking us very positively and strongly with other people. One of those is the coordinator for Wigan Voluntary Youth Service, Ed Ellis. He’s working with a group of young people in West Leigh.

There’s another person who’s brought a group of nine people from the black and ethnic minority groups to look at developing the listening in Scholes. But something happened with that meeting. We don’t quite know what. What we’ve been told is that if he didn’t turn up something quite serious had happened, so we’re still trying to find out.

Stephen: Peter Takaona has set up a team of nine people who are all from black and ethnic minorities who are fascinated by the work, really interested in it. He’s 100% full on except when we went to meet him last Tuesday he didn’t turn up and we haven’t heard from him since. But I think Peter will come on board, he’s basically asked for five or six places on the summer event.

I think we’ll beat the target. The summer school is a kind of Regenerate special really. It will run for 19 days and we’ll be there all the time. When I told people about that at the community centre this morning they were over the moon. So they were saying, what, if somebody turned up at 8 o’clock on Saturday night you’ll be there? I said absolutely. Whenever people want to come the doors are going to open.

Julia: The idea is there’ll be a kind of core programme we can encourage everybody to come to at the beginning, something in the middle that again we’d encourage everybody to take part in, and then the ending bit where you’d have the presentations, the celebrations, the reviews etc. But within that we’ll be there developing things on an as-needed basis.

Stephen: Every year we used do a full training for transformation course… and the transformation for people happened because they really had time to reflect on their behaviour and change their behaviour. We as facilitators had that same time as well. There was no way we could have done that if we hadn’t been there at 11 o’clock at night, having a cup of tea or a beer or whatever with people.

I think if we can do that and we can start to build the trust, people can start to relax with the process and own it. At the moment some people are starting to own it and they’re very powerful people like Pam Stewart and others, because they see it as a very important part of their jigsaw. But there’s a hell of a lot of people that are not owning it, they’re not inquiring about it. We’re probably not getting to them.

Reasons for successes and difficulties

Stephen: It’s the way we are creating relationships with organisations and key individuals and people within the local authority. And the credit for that has to go to people like Kevin Walsh, Pam Stewart, Lynn Morris from Groundwork - key individuals that have spotted this is interesting. They have decided to trust us and are developing strong relationships with us and are introducing us to others. That’s worked very well because that’s putting us in touch with communities and helping us to build trust within communities.

I think from my perspective what hasn’t gone so well [is] the fact that in an 18 month timeframe we’re expected to do that, bed the process in, and actually get all these social enterprises emerging and everybody will be happy and trusting – well that’s cobblers, it can’t be done. When I say expected, we wrote the bid ourselves, so it wasn’t an expectation of Wigan. We were just saying this could happen if. But of course the ‘if’ has led us to have to work in different ways.

Julia: But it is interesting that it’s been introduced through the economic partnership where people have a great optimism and energy around change and working with this agenda.

I think there is a little bit of tension that this has come in through the economic partnership rather than community engagement, community development. It’s understandable and I think the positive side is we are starting to get that dialogue going and a mutual respect there, but it’s taking time.

The timetable for the project

Stephen: I think from our point of view it’s good because first of all it’s giving us targets and we’re really having to push the boat out without ruining the process, so it’s taxing us, in terms of us thinking of different ways of delivering this service, reaching the targets but still sowing the seeds for transformation.

I think one of the bad things about it is that you do end up with the potential for a project to start to crumble because people aren’t seeing instant action, they’re not seeing us perform miracles.

I’m not worried about people sniping, because it’s just a way of people expressing their frustration – they can say whatever they like, at the end of the day what we’re doing is we’re sowing the seeds for transformation here. Part of the transformation has got to be that people who are sniping either stop it, get involved with what everybody’s doing or are held to account for the misinformation they put about. That is happening a little bit here. But I think one of the good things that’s happened we’ve got so much incredible support.

Hopes and expectations for the next 4-6 months

Stephen: We’ve got this set of tools and we’re talking to lots of different organisations and we’re announcing the summer school in the next three weeks. Now in some ways that is a massive test for the tools, the skills, the staff, the expertise to deliver a fantastic social enterprise initiative within the borough.

In this project one of the things we said was we would be successful if local organisations engage. Because one of the last things we wanted to do is go knocking on doors ourselves, everyone resisted that because that’s the old way we worked. We wanted to be much more involved in disseminating really good practice.

One of the key things around engagement that we’re looking at is sustainability, and at the heart of sustainability are networks and enterprise. We’re prepared to work with you to help people develop these new community enterprises, please bring them forward. If they do I think in three months we will have a big success on our hands. We’ll have a range of young people and older people who have come together and developed their vision and really framed that vision well, right through to individuals in key organisations. They’ll have developed their business plans and they’ll be starting to put those business plans into action. If it goes well I’d like to think we’re working with 30 different projects across the whole of the 32 super output areas.

Julia: And having a celebratory awards event with the chamber of commerce working with us and the local authority and there’ll be good publicity and that in itself will I think start to make real the possibility of people being enterprising and doing things.

What Regenerate is doing is helping give some structure, and definitely a process, but also some inspiration as to what could be possible. Whether it’s taken up or not is then down to people here.

Stephen: What’s in the back of my mind is the potential for difficulty. The potential for that difficulty is if, let’s say, an area’s got control – you have a committee and a plan and the committee have decided they want to develop certain things and they are not prepared for people to emerge outside its structures - you will have a situation where social entrepreneurs and people that would be activists get torpedoed before you can get to them. I am worried about that.

Perspectives on regeneration: Simon Dale

2008-09-24T17:28:00.002+01:00

Simon Dale, community engagement manager, Wigan Council, was interviewed in June 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

How did you get involved with Regenerate?

My initial involvement with Regenerate arose from my role in the LSP and its NRF programme. When we were advised about the proposed scheme I suggested that we needed to have a good / better level of involvement in the programme.

When I read the brief I was positive because I felt that the language which Regenerate used to promote what they were doing was stuff which I had seen work elsewhere.

Unfortunately (perhaps) I reacted badly against the original introduction (sales pitch). It seemed that the focus of the work was on listening but that the pitch was all about talking and selling a model of working. I did express that view openly to Stephen and to Julia. When someone comes in like that, able, articulate, with a pitch, bringing something that’s quite innovative and potentially dynamic, for me you have to listen to people - what do you want from us, what would be helpful, what do you think? So I reacted (badly) initially because I thought there was too much selling here. You listen to your customer first of all.

I still feel the same way. My original problem was that at the heart of this is something really fantastic, having people who are so articulate, who can go in and broker with communities and the rest of it. (It’s quite a gift really to have that and you should not abuse it.)

What I said is that if you want to come in, talk to the LSP and I don’t mean that at a committee level, I think what you’ve got we could embed into local networks (and the trust relationships we have with certain individuals.)

I think there was a judgement taken by some people that it was better to come in with a clean approach that did not piggyback on other existing work. I think that other people felt that Regenerate should come into the area run the model cleanly, without interference, and without having to broker with existing preconditions.

I respected that view because it may well be that that is indeed the right way. (Go in, set it up, create your pyramids, you do your input and your training) It’s pretty high risk, to into somewhere clean and hope to get through, there wasn’t a contingency built in. I think the position we’re in now is what does happen next? I wish it had been a bit different. I wish we’d engaged in a different way.

What progress has there been?

I’m not working directly with them so I don’t see the day to day product, but I do have occasional dealings. From the contact I have with people in the team here I am aware that they are on the patch, making some inputs. With any scheme, it’s absolutely too early to come to some view of overall success or achievement yet.

The concern I have got is the people who deal with them feel like they’re being sold a product rather being trained in a new skill. I would be expecting people to be coming back to me now saying this is really exciting, or there’s something we need to take somewhere else here, or it’s creating real conflict, but it’s not - I suppose what I’m feeling is it sounds just like traditional good quality community development work. I feel like there’s a lost opportunity.

How are people responding?

I don’t see any patterns to it. I’m picking up stuff from external people, from local connections and from the people in our team here. I think I’d expected to see a sort of staged approach. I know it takes time. This is the problem, isn’t it? You go in somewhere clean, it takes you 12 months to get to know people, another year to work up your ideas and start it working, and two years to create the mistakes or whatever.

The conversation I have had around [the summer school] is that there’s awareness that in the end the neighbourhood renewal money does have output requirements. Looking more at social enterprise models might be a way of using their skills, both with new starts and also with existing old faces.

We had a 3rd sector development session today (11 June) and both Julia and Stephen came along to it. I’m glad they attended because it was a proper LSP event, where senior people were meeting with grassroots organisations. It was the kind of meeting that’s really valuable, and you have sets of organisations saying we need to improve how we can work, be more businesslike, all these things. I came away thinking, hoping that there might be something in the mix there (that we might hook into the Regenerate work).

What difference is Regenerate making?

It’s a fantastically expensive piece of work and I think it’s pretty brave really to bring that kind of catalyst in – and in the longer term I hope there will be spin-offs from that. There’s absolutely no evidence I could bring to bear but I would have said they were probably in the right place at the right time in terms of the kind of mood, cultural change, organisational development.

Like today’s session, you get people in the room, two thirds of them voluntary bodies – and you can create the setting for some very different ways of working. I think a part of the Regenerate piece is about brokering that kind of relationship. There is some value in that.

I do think the summer school does have some potential. There’s not a huge amount of time to get it organised but I would hope that Stephen has now made some of those contacts.

I’m seeing a very different debate now about community empowerment and community voice within the LSP.

Can that be attributed to Regenerate?

[I’m] not sure. You’d need to be pretty sophisticated in your tracking of who’s spoken to whom to arrive at that kind of judgement.

I think there is receptiveness to ideas from elsewhere and the LSP probably thinks it has a role in supporting that.

I suspect some of the shift at the moment is around refreshing and re-energising how people feel about it, and the fact that the LSP’s offer (both in terms of approach as well as partnership structure and funding) is becoming more important.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

If I was managing the programme and had a contract relationship with Regenerate, I think I would have views on what opportunities I would like us to focus on - there’s a real opportunity there to build capacity … and they would be ideally suited with the kind of method and approach and skills they’ve got.

They’ve got the summer school and some of this short-term output focus could also play to their strengths. I think there’s an ability and there’s a quality about the package which has got credibility and goodwill and confidence with people.
If Regenerate wants to continue working here in future they do have to buy into local institutions, I suppose.

What needs to happen now?

I think the thing that’s been missing here possibly is a good - old fashioned project management group – shared responsibility, arguing the toss over what’s right or wrong. We’re looking for opportunities to shape, test and tease things out, and I think for some of those things to work, we probably would need to look at how we share responsibility.

Doing my kind of job (I am conscious) you can be pretty distant from the patch and I don’t spend my days walking the streets of Scholes. However I would expect the project to be more visible.

I think [the economic partnership] were brave and quite far-sighted to bring this piece of work in. I think it’s the kind of thing that you’ll look back in five years’ time and say, that was really interesting, it was pitched the right way and did these kind of things. At the moment it just feels like it is not quite gelling.

I am not making any assumptions that my own views are correct - I don’t work like that - but there should be opportunities for negotiating. I don’t think there should be anything that is considered to be closed (or a done-deal). There should always be space to move to.

Perspectives on regeneration: Pam Stewart

2008-09-24T17:25:00.001+01:00

The second interview with Pam Stewart, community volunteer and director of Wave, took place in June 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

Progress since January

Stephen and Julia have attended quite a few meetings with me, the borough wide community network meetings, all kinds of network meetings. I can tell you that I feel a very tangible difference. People are beginning to ask questions that two years ago I don’t think they would ask. They’re beginning to question what the role of the third sector is within the process.

I feel it’s almost like doing a jigsaw and you’ve lost a piece, and you’re frantically trying to find the bit that will complete the puzzle, and I feel as if Regenerate have created the opportunity to get that final piece in place. People are now coming together and saying we need a strong third sector, we do not have a voice, whatever we currently have is not working.

Questions are being asked that really weren’t asked, certainly two years ago but even 12 months ago. Where [previously] they quietly discussed it in another room, it’s now openly being discussed - we need to do this differently.

The day after I have attended meetings with Stephen my email box has gone mad, saying that’s brilliant, what a fantastic idea, wouldn’t it be great if we could do that. People are getting really excited about the possibility of it actually making sense.

It’s like emptying the Atlantic with a teaspoon, it’s too big a job and nobody ever thought it was going to be possible. You could attend loads and loads of meetings, and people round the table would agree that we needed to do something, they would see what it was we needed to do, and then everybody went away and nobody did it, because we all went back to our silos and got on with what was important to us.

Impact of Regenerate

They are working very closely with Wave as an organisation to go forward as a social enterprise, but also [with] clients of Wave, and the hope is through the listening process to give the girls the courage and confidence to go forward and create opportunities for themselves.

Unfortunately it hasn’t been as successful as we would like, but working with that client base, it’s a very, very hard group to reach. You’re dealing with people who have been victims, where there has possibly been sexual abuse in the past, you’ve got this long line of damaged people. To turn that around in a week or two weeks is impossible.

People have shown a real enthusiasm for it but when it actually comes to sitting down with people it’s proved too much. For the clients to actually commit to sit there for two hours has just proven to be too much.

But the value from it is that Wave as an organisation want to go forward as a social enterprise, through the listening process developing themselves as an organisation, which in itself has value. And if they work with other groups within Leigh we’re going to have people to champion it and carry it on and give it sustainability, which is what we want – something to continue.

With regard to the Wigan side the work has been centred around Sunshine House and the Scholes area. Talking to the people that are involved in it, they’re very excited about it.

My own personal opinion is I’m not quite sure yet if they have the capacity to undertake it. The enthusiasm isn’t enough. So I think some personal development needs to take place before they see this as something of value as opposed to something to do.

The area has gone through tremendous change in the past three or four years. I think if you have the recognition and the acknowledgement that we need to do some work, that in itself is a positive, that people actually recognise they need to do something to develop. So that’s really good.

I know that Regenerate are working closely with and have spoken to people at Groundwork Trust. I know they’re getting on board and they’re really enthusiastic about it. I know that Wigan Voluntary Youth Services, the gentleman that’s working on the ground in Abbey Lane, who’s looking at developing a gardening social enterprise for the estate, I know that he’s absolutely chomping at the bit to get this delivered.

I know that members of the borough wide network working committee are interested in getting the borough wide network involved in becoming champions of this. The facilitator for the borough wide community network, the employee at CVS, is interested in developing it as a piece of work for members of the borough wide network.

So I know there’s a lot going on in Wigan with Groundwork, with Scholes, with Sunshine House and I know that Stephen and Julia are attending lots and lots of meetings. They attended the third sector meeting yesterday. That in itself is a step forward for Wigan because there has been a recognition that the third sector needs to be stronger and a partner in the process.

My personal view is Regenerate are in place at the right time like a piece in a jigsaw that’s just going to complete. The awareness is there, the acknowledgement is there, the reflection upon what’s gone wrong has now taken place, and I think let’s get on and make it different – that’s about to take place. They’re not going to be the solution, but they’re going to be a driver in encouraging people to look for a solution.

Reasons for success

First of all you’ve got to say the charisma and personality of Regenerate as an organisation, the confidence, the sheer presence of some people who actually know what they’re talking about – that is very, very positive and people take on board the enthusiasm, the confidence and the commitment.

Reasons for resistance

As I said in the first interview they’re very unforgiving in this area and they’re very suspicious of outsiders. With a process like Regenerate coming into a place like Wigan once you have a first success or what is perceived as a success … you’re going to get all these people jumping on the bandwagon. I think the process is longer than that and I don’t think people are used to it. You’re not going to get a quick result, it’s going to be in two years, five years, ten years’ time when you’ve got a stronger sector.

Prospects for social enterprises

I think there will be social enterprises as a result of this. Whether there will be 25 social enterprises I don’t know, but there will definitely be social enterprises as a result. And I think the foundations will be in place to provide 25-plus social enterprises. But to create a social enterprise like any business with longevity, it can’t be done in the blink of an eye. You could create 25 social enterprises to tick a box - I’ve no doubt they could do it, but the week they leave they will collapse through lack of support, through lack of knowledge, through lack of development.

I’ve no doubt it will create tensions, but in my opinion the actual work of getting people to sit down and talk and listen and develop themselves personally to be in a place where they can take it forward, I think that is of more value than creating something that will be gone in six months’ time and that doesn’t have a value.

There is a tangible buzz. People are talking and looking forward and saying things that I’ve never heard round here before. They’re asking questions that I’d never have imagined they would have asked, and I’m quite shocked.

Hopes and expectations for the next 4-6 months

I went to the third sector meeting yesterday. At the end of the workshop and all the feedback it became very obvious to me and to a lot of people in the room that our CVS are not providing a lead. There came from the feedback at that meeting an obvious need for a driver of the third sector so they can become a partner on a level playing field.

I’m going to arrange a meeting at the beginning of July to get the great and the good … to coordinate the third sector within Wigan because it currently isn’t being done. This needs to be driven and driven forward quickly or Wigan will lose out. The possibility of funding, external funding that will come into Wigan through the third sector is huge in the future.

I think Regenerate have created an atmosphere in which that could happen. They haven’t created it, they haven’t made it happen, but they’ve given us permission to think it can happen.

I think it’s not just Regenerate – with a jigsaw we have all these pieces floating about and you need the final one to complete it. Government white papers are saying work with communities. Government white papers are saying make it local. Government white papers are telling local governance bodies to do it; LSPs are being told get to grass roots, work with people. Regenerate have created an atmosphere in which we can actually say this is how.

How will we know the project is working?

It’s the buzz, the enthusiasm, the empowerment of people, individuals within the sector, and for me that’s the difference.

The venue’s already been booked for the summer school. I think we’ve got a quarter of the people we need to talk to, but I think the summer school will provide much more than double, certainly more than double, the opportunities to reach all those people and get this process in place. And to have people walking out of the investment centre with a belief that we can do it, that’s what’s powerful about Regenerate – it’s people having the belief.

I want people at the end of the summer school walking out of that building with an enthusiasm and an empowerment – yes we can do this. I want people within the third sector, be they volunteers, be they paid staff for voluntary organisations – I want them to leave and realise that they are very, very valuable within the economics of Wigan. They are a major player and they don’t recognise they are a major player.

Everybody I’ve spoken to, I’ve got people saying I want to champion it, I want to be part of it, I want to know when it is. There was concern that it’s in August which is major summer holiday time, and some people are not going to make it, but if the summer school does the job that I think it’s going to do, when those people come back off holiday, they’re going to be banging our door down and asking us, can we do it again? And that will show you whether the summer school was successful or not.

If people are leaving with an enthusiasm and saying to their colleagues, ‘Pity you were on holiday, you should have come to this event, it were brilliant, spoke to such a body, did such a thing, it’s enabled us to do such a thing,’ we will get people saying whoa, hang on, I want to be part of this. And that’s your success, isn’t it?

Perspectives on regeneration: Lynn Morris

2008-09-24T17:24:00.001+01:00

Lynn Morris, development manager at Groundwork, was interviewed in June 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

How did you get involved with Regenerate?

I met Regenerate [in the] early part of last year with the economic partnership when it was first mooted that they intended to come into Wigan. Then they got the NRF money and we had a meeting, it must have been about 12-15 people, from different agencies and partners in Wigan, where Stephen from Regenerate explained what the project was all about.

I could see some connections with what we do, [because] it’s all the things that Groundwork are known for. I think at that stage there was quite a bit of, resistance is the wrong word, but people thinking we already do this. But we thought, well, it’s a project that might help us do it better, or do it differently, so it’s worth considering. So I suggested to Stephen that they start off doing something with us so it gave people something more concrete to see on the ground.

Progress so far

Since then we’ve had a training day here. About ten people went through the initial couple of days’ training with Regenerate. Some people did it because it will be part of their job and they will continue with whatever training comes afterwards. Other people did it to see what it was all about and be aware of it. We’ve got two people definitely who will go ahead with it and we’re just waiting to set that in motion.

The other aspect is whether we could use it as a product for Groundwork, that we could use regionally, nationally - that’s at the very early stages at the moment.

What’s happened in terms of using that training? Well it was only a few weeks ago, it’s not that long ago. It’s very difficult because I like the idea of it and I think had Wigan got the LEGI bid and been able to appoint or fund animators in different areas it would have been quite straightforward, but we don’t have the luxury of someone we can dedicate to that role without bidding for it.

In the meantime I’d done a bid which wasn’t successful unfortunately, [which] would have revenue funded a post to be an animator. If we could have just got that started off we could have dedicated a person, had a pilot there, and really made it happen.

We’ve got two Community Pride projects, which are really based in the community, there’s one in Worsley Mesnes which has been going the longest which is quite well established in the community, quite well thought of, and it was the kind of project where that philosophy of consultation would have worked quite well. So while we can’t fund somebody specifically to do that we can incorporate the ideas into what they already do. So that’s what we’re waiting to start up at the moment. There’ll be two projects – one’s in Skelmersdale.

Feedback from training

[It’s been] quite mixed really. Obviously for the majority it’s the first time they’ve been exposed to Regenerate anyway. It was quite funny because the first day everybody came away and thought, ‘I have no idea what this is all about’. And then the second day they pulled it together a bit more.

I think we would benefit from it which is why we’ve continued with it. I’ve almost wanted us to be the ones who tested it out and proved it, because it’s not that far removed from what we already do, so it would be quite easy to incorporate it. The difficulty is you’re always attaching something onto somebody’s job – it’s capacity, isn’t it, it’s just having time and resources to do it. But I think certainly it’s well worth a try.

Will staff be convinced of its value?

They don’t dispute that it’s a good idea, that the whole concept of it theoretically makes a lot of sense, they can understand that, but there is no evidence of it happening before. So it’s really hard to say to somebody, look, that’s what’s happened there. It’s just this intangible quality.

Putting the training into effect

Community Pride is a model we want to spread across the area because we’ve just merged trusts so we’ve got quite a wide area that goes out to Morecambe – Community Pride is a product really that we believe works well for Groundwork and is a really good community based idea, gets people involved really quickly. So you could see where this method of consultation would work, especially if it was a new project. We’re trying to incorporate it into one old, one new, just to see how it works. It’s probably easier in a new one where you can do it straight from day one, and obviously that would be easier.

Summer school plans

Because it’s linked to social enterprise, and because hopefully at the end of it we could help people start small businesses, and get some capital back into areas that are really quite run-down, there seems to me to be something tangible at the end of it if that can happen, and as far as I’m aware that’s not happened to date with any consultation. It’s always been, let’s get all this information from you, but we’ll not actually do much about it at the end of it. And it just felt that this [the summer school] was a way you could probably do something about it.

Members of staff and the line manager have met with Stephen and Julia, and they’ve all agreed to go ahead with this, so it’s just a matter of the mechanics of starting it off.

We did talk about Wigan’s identity and the Northern Soul element, and also we talked about all the Youth Work programmes that we run, using one and doing this summer school with them, so there’s something tangible again going on that people can see.

The Northern Soul idea is really good, because obviously that’s Wigan’s heritage, and it ties in very nicely because the Wigan Pier Quarter development’s going ahead at the moment, and you could see where the whole thing could fit in, but that’s really early stages. We’ve actually had one discussion about this a couple of weeks ago.

What’s working well?

[We’re] hoping to get Groundwork involved with the idea of what’s going on because I think it’s quite good. The idea of the summer school and doing something, again because it’s got an outcome that is potentially lucrative and even quite exciting for people, it will be interesting to see how it works.

What we didn’t want to do was force it upon people. We wanted people to be able to say yes I’d like to do that, I think this sounds all right, I feel comfortable with it and happy to do it that way, and we’ve got that consensus with the two staff who are going to take it on board.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate over the next four to six months

I would hope by then that certainly the Community Pride project would have incorporated Regenerate’s ideas, certainly the one in Skelmersdale – it’s strange, that, because it’s slightly outside the Wigan area, it’s quite new, so it’s a bit hard to know what I expect from that yet, or what we can do with it.

I suppose if we do it right both ourselves and Regenerate will get the outcomes that we want out of those projects, and if it works well and social enterprise is the end result of it then that would be a bonus as far as we’re concerned.

Perspectives on regeneration: Kevin Walsh

2008-09-24T17:18:00.002+01:00

The second interview with Kevin Walsh, economic partnership manager, Wigan Council, took place in June 2007. This summary has been approved for publication.

Progress since January

I guess [things are] going or have gone differently to what we planned and expected, inasmuch that the original plan was to take the Listening Matters methodology as a way forward to create demand and then meet that demand with social enterprises.

I think that Listening Matters is taking longer to actually get up and running than was anticipated for several reasons. One of them was generally a lack of buy-in to the process from other partners, and where there has been buy-in perhaps it’s been less than enthusiastic, but then there’s other pockets where it’s gone very well, where it’s actually recruited from the community, and the community people have taken the idea on board and are really keen and enthusiastic to move it forward.

That’s left us with a dilemma. At the end of the day Regenerate are commissioned to help and create 25 social enterprises and that’s in the service level agreement, and that is what we have to focus on. So we’ve tended to try and focus on how we can actually get those 25 social enterprises identified and help get them up and running and established.

I think the project’s focus has evolved into helping some of the existing organisations in the borough who are already in place and have already got people and volunteers and enthusiasm, but get them on a sound and sustainable footing. So there have been a lot of referrals into Regenerate.

The summer school should hopefully stimulate some new ideas and social enterprises. [This] does give the opportunity to get some new blood into the sector.

Impact of Regenerate

[In] Scholes Birkett Bank I introduced Stephen into the established community group within that group Stephen and Julia then managed to work with Peter Takaona, who’s the BME leader or rep, and my understanding is Peter’s immediately found 10 people within that network to come in and go through the training.

That has gone through very smoothly and hopefully now we’ll see some fruition from that. The same with Groundwork, they’re very enthusiastic about the whole process. We’re also working with people on the other side of the borough – Wave. I think that’s gone down quite well.

I think the problem with Regenerate, and it was always going to be a risk to a degree, is that it’s disruptive technology in Dragon’s Den terms – and I’m quite keen on that because if it is disrupting the status quo and the existing way of doing things I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.

The culture of organisations and people in Wigan is that they are not risk takers, they’re very risk-averse and that flows through into things like a lack of entrepreneurial culture within Wigan. I don’t think they’re afraid of failure – there’s not a culture of risk taking and being entrepreneurial and being creative.

What you’ll quite often hear when you talk to some of these established people and groups is the parachute syndrome, where people are parachuted into an area, and I think there’s that barrier that Regenerate have had to overcome as well. That Stephen and Julia have been parachuted in.

It’s almost like out of 100 people you’ll probably get 10 people who’ll embrace it and 90 who wouldn’t. I don’t know if that’s the actual percentage, but there’s going to be a percentage of people who are really for it and probably a higher percentage of those who aren’t.

How [did] they approach the risk-averse people? I think they persevered with them as much as they can. Stephen does report back to me and says I’ve had a good meeting with such a body, or a tough meeting with such a body, and I’d say I’d like you to carry on, keep pressing on and they will do, or sometimes I say just go round them.

How effectively are Regenerate working?

I think the jury’s still out from hard evidence. There’s a lot of anecdotal stuff. I get feedback from some of the people they’re working with who really do think they’re doing good work and it’s really being effective, and I take that and I trust their views and their judgement.

In terms of actual hard evidence which we still need to produce, then we need to make sure that’s in place to satisfy the actual contract we have. But in terms of how effective they are, the kind of things they do, you can’t measure the effectiveness really.

Are there targets for listening? No. We commissioned Regenerate to create 25 social enterprises and I have said to Stephen I don’t care how you do it, you are commissioned to deliver 25 social enterprises. I do want to see the Listening Matters methodology implemented and get some results out of it.

One of the things I want to get out of this hopefully is some meaningful information I can put into things like a Legi bid, to say we have done some deep consultation within the community.

We can then feed that into our future bids for funding and I think hopefully that will give them the strength and resonance to secure funding. That’s what I really want to do.

[Regenerate] are working with quite a few organisations to move them on and … they’ve taken some of the funding that was going to be used for Listening Matters and moved that over into getting Tim Reith up to help with some of the specific social enterprises, so there’s work ongoing with that.

Hopefully the outcome [will be] some business plans that will show these businesses are viable and sustainable, which they don’t have at the moment, and that’s a big issue in the borough.

What factors are influencing progress?

What’s hindering it I guess, is the fact that Regenerate is basically two people plus associates who come in as and when required, so it’s quite a small operation. But it’s probably a strength as well because we could easily throw lots of money at it and parachute lots of people in to do the Listening Matters stuff and then they’d disappear again. It really is trying to build that grassroots networking and capability up within the community.

I think perhaps the Wigan culture is the other thing we probably underestimated. I think it will change, and it will change basically by people moving into the borough.

Hopes and expectations for the next 4-6 months

I would have expected by the end of this year that we’ll have identified these 25 social enterprises or pretty close to that number, and that Regenerate will work with them in terms of business plans and getting the corporate governance and structures in place so that they actually start to move forward. The key to underpinning that I suppose is demand for the service they’re trying to offer.

But also I would want to see some fruits of the Listening Matters process. Not necessarily informing demand for social enterprise although obviously that’s the ideal, but really coming back to us to say you might have thought this was the case, but the actual reality of the situation is this. Then that will be really good information for us to start to build into our plans and bids for funding and that kind of thing.

What needs to happen now?

Whatever training that Stephen has done - ten people at a time or whatever, the groups that he’s taken on board and training - I want to see the networks starting. That’s the point. In theory you should be able very quickly to get 100 or 200 people and then get some very good flow of information back. You need to act on it of course, or else you start to lose the trust.

One thing I’ve recognised is the best way to make things happen is to have hard evidence and information.

[The] summer school is a key thing that’s absolutely necessary because that’s going to hopefully generate some new [social enterprises].

The summer school I think is a fantastic idea because it’s something tangible, you can actually say this is something that has happened. I think it’s something that is quite repeatable as well. I’m quite excited, a lot of people are quite excited about it.

The enterprises Stephen is starting to work with, some of the organisations are having to gear up to the new contracting and commissioning framework that the council is starting to implement. So there’s a definite piece of work that needs to be done there and hopefully Tim [Reith] will bring some value to that as well, which wasn’t anticipated in the original contract.

Is the project good value?

We’ve just got to maintain the balance between getting the scores on the doors in terms of numbers and then making sure we get the consultation, get the Listening Matters working, get some information back that can then be used to inform our future plans and strategies. That’s the value of it.

Perspectives on regeneration: Joe Taylor

2008-09-24T17:17:00.001+01:00

Joe Taylor is secretary of Billinge Local History Society. This summary has been approved for publication.

How did you get involved with Regenerate?

I am a member of the Wigan cultural partnership and community representative on the LSP. My interest is heritage and history – I’m secretary of the local history society and chair of the heritage network for Wigan.

As soon as Stephen Kearney opened his mouth I knew what he was talking about – what he said made sense. Since then I have tried to become more involved. I see it as the start of a process here.

I am interested in what Stephen had to say. He seems intelligent and sincere and I would like to find out where he’s coming from. He went through the [listening] process with me. I could see the framework they’re trying to develop.

Background and key challenges

What I see coming from it is that as a person I could learn to do better what we’re trying to do. [It’s] a better way of achieving what we’re trying to achieve.

What for me is important is that people should be involved a lot more than they are in the decision-making processes. It’s a cultural thing that I think has developed over centuries. But you can’t just change the culture overnight.

In Wigan there are two ways for interested people from the community to be involved. The township process, which is council driven, and the second way is the community empowerment network model. Funding is becoming an issue and we’re trying to look forward to how we’re continuing. Wigan Community Empowerment Programme is funded until 2008. We’re looking at how we go beyond that. Through the CEP you can be elected onto the LSP. The other route can get you elected onto the township forum.

Hopes and aspirations for Regenerate

I can see Regenerate being able to look at everything we do and do it in a better way and more efficiently. I think a lot of us can learn from the Regenerate experience – it’s a gut feeling.

Progress so far

It’s too early to say what’s been done. I am talking about it to people and can’t tell them much yet because I don’t know an awful lot. I think they will identify people they will give intensive training to and that will be the start of the process, and I am trying to think which people should be on that initial group.

What needs to be done in the next four to six months?

I would like to see a lot of people talking about it quite earnestly and being reinvigorated in what they’re doing because of it – saying this is a good idea and a pile of us getting involved in it. People actually physically doing things. I am hoping that six months hence there will be a group of people who are really enthused and working together.

Perspectives on regeneration: Darren Barton

2008-09-24T17:11:00.002+01:00

Second interview with Darren Barton, June 2007

This summary has been approved for publication.

Scholes Birkett Bank: Progress since January

Things have been OK. Now we’ve got to the stage where the group, including residents who haven’t been involved in this kind of funding allocation, really have a clear idea of what the issues are.

We had a meeting last week, and the community reps on the group seem now to be taking some real ownership of how we move forward for the Scholes area, which is really good, really quite positive, and I think they’re in a situation where they can make their mind up as to who they want to support them in their work. So we’re at quite a critical stage.

We’ve identified the key themes for the area, we have identified the key agencies who can support the people of Scholes to try to resolve those issues. We’re at a stage now where we really have to narrow down what we’re looking to spend local money on. That’s the group’s responsibility and they’re actually compiling their own report from the information that we provided, which hopefully will be pretty clear.

They’re really keen to use local funding to then generate future funding so things can be sustainable. I’m really pleased with that side of things, the fact that people are thinking broadly about their area and not just about specific issues and quick fixes.

Employment

We have got a significant number of people in their fifties and a significant number in their early twenties or teens, some of which come from the same family, so you’d have dad and son not working, and that would carry on unless you do something to try and break it. [We’re looking at] things like social entrepreneurship, projects, speaking to young people when they come into the centres and to the community centre. Housing have said they’ll take an apprentice. It’s only little things, but small things can significantly improve the situation.

Improving the village centre

We are looking at how that area is managed and what the centre can used for. One of the shops that’s coming in there now is a Co-op; one of the old pubs that’s become derelict is being turned into an Indian restaurant – which you may not think is a big thing, but it will significantly improve what the area looks like, and it’s being touted as the biggest Indian restaurant in the whole borough. We’re also starting to have having conversations with the management and the owners of the shopping area, so we’re moving forward on that.

Management of the community centre

The right people are getting round the table to look at a management plan as regards sustainability and keeping that as a viable place. That’s moving on well.

Improving health

There’s lots of funded groups which people are aware of now - health, fitness, dance groups. But getting people out of the flats and moving around the centre is slow at the moment and needs some work.

Understanding what people really think

We needed to get behind the basic facts and figures about what makes this a deprived area, and ask people what they felt about their area. The group has started to work on a community newsletter, which will raise awareness of the projects that we have going on in the area and all the things that we want to do.

High rise flat residents

Each set of flats has its own community group now. So we have seven mini action plans for the patch as well. That will be quite good and will hopefully get information from residents, so we can use those as a way of consulting with people.

A cleaner greener safer Scholes

In four weeks’ time there will be an environment event which will look at pulling together a plan of all the different projects that we have got around that area. We have got five or six major projects for the area, that if you put them together can form a really good environmental plan for that particular patch.

Some good work’s been done. We’ve had a fortnightly meeting of the Scholes group since I last saw you and every meeting’s been minuted. There’s a lot of storming and norming and all that kind of stuff, but that’s just normal. I think the group’s pretty good now - it’ll take itself forward and knows who to go to for support.

Involvement of Regenerate

It’s difficult I suppose. There’s a certain feeling from certain people within the Scholes area that it doesn’t need anybody specifically from outside Scholes to actually find out what the people of Scholes feel and need. It’s not the kind of area that needs that piece of work really.

You’ve got lots of residents that have been there a long time. There’s a certain level of “This is our patch, leave us alone”. To a certain extent I can understand that, but I think there’s a level of people not being open minded about someone who doesn’t live in the area, seeing it through their eyes and getting feedback from residents that’s from a neutral kind of source.

It would have been better if we’d had a little bit more structure to the way the Regenerate work’s being done, relating to what’s coming out of the plans for the area. People don’t understand the link between the work Regenerate’s doing and how it’s relating to the Scholes project – there’s a bit of confusion and a bit of concern going on.

The [Scholes] group itself is doing its own report on who they’d like to see supporting them and they will feed back themselves.

If the people involved in developing the [Scholes] project had a better understanding themselves of their own patch and what they want to do, they will have said, “We know what the issues are, we know what we need to ask the questions about, and we can do it ourselves.”

But I don’t necessarily think they as people, as individuals living in that area, can speak to people in an unbiased way, so having an external agency coming in to me seems like the right way about it. So when we have our meeting we need to be clear on that.

What has worked, and why?

Successes
Scholes/Birkett Bank: The big success is a number of people understanding what the key issues are for Scholes and identifying a number of things that can be done to start resolving some of those issues. I think thinking about things more deeply before you make a decision on some action has been a real positive.

Reasons for success
I think this whole project has given people a fresh start really. They have been positive and understood and honest about the fact that some things that they’re doing are either outdated or need to be changed. We’ve also identified some of the weaknesses in the area – where schools and things like that aren’t communicating, where people aren’t being involved.

Disappointments or frustrations
Not really. You’ve got to deal with personalities and people saying, “we already know what things are like in Scholes and what do we need to do all this for?” and some people think they know better to a certain extent. The meetings have gone well. In some bits of the meetings, you think this is really good, we’re really getting somewhere now. People are talking in the right way and thinking properly about the issues and coming up with some actions. It’s gone as well as I could have hoped really.

Hopes and expectations for the next 4-6 months

We need to have a clear set of plans for the area, a newsletter that really does tell people what’s going on, more people from the community using the facilities within the community, a better measure of community confidence in what’s going on in the area as well, and some of the actions from within [the action plans] actually being achieved.

I would hope that what we will have is a good number of people having gone through [Regenerate’s] training process and a good understanding behind the statistics of what people want – some added value from that, not just your bog standard stuff that says people living in such and such an area want A, B, C and D, something saying this is how people feel.

I’d really like that back. What do people want – do they have low aspirations because they want to have low aspirations? I really want that kind of stuff reflected. I’d love the Regenerate side of things to do that piece of work.

About 20 people [have been] trained in Scholes – I don’t know for definite. Less than I would have expected. I think we could have done a little bit more in making links between the people within the different departments – for example from the housing side of things.

We could have been a bit quicker with it really. I didn’t feel that was my responsibility. I thought it was best to leave the people who were used to doing what they were used to doing to get on with it, but we could still do that – there’s no time limit.

Wigan Extreme 1

2008-09-24T17:07:00.002+01:00

Interviews at Wigan Extreme summer school, August 2007

The Wigan Extreme summer school – also branded the Ideas Factory – was designed to encourage new and existing social enterprises, using RE:generate’s techniques of community engagement. It was an intensive three-week course, and introduced participants to the basics of business planning, marketing and publicity – as well as explaining the concept of social enterprise and putting in place the foundations of a social enterprise network. More than 50 people attended some or all of the sessions, and by the end of the three weeks 25 potential businesses had been identified and helped with business planning.
The interviews – summarised below – took place with participants in the summer school on 16 August. The social enterprise ideas are a selection of the ideas put forward during the summer school.

Aims and achievements

Stephen Kearney, RE:Generate:
‘We decided to run the summer school to recognise the work people have done and think about projects, but put them into the context of social enterprise.
‘We used the “personal development and social action” formula – we listened, advertised, used local press and booked Wigan Investment Centre for three weeks. [Wigan Council] are spending £230k over two years and need results. If we get these people [potential social entrepreneurs] in, you create a community holding team – it will grow and teach them the Listening Matters process.
‘We have helped them build visions, look at teams, resolve conflicts, research markets, develop budgets and cashflows and publicise what they can do and put it into action. That’s involved really tough work. Some guys have developed their ideas and gone off to develop business plans. Others have filled with tears when we have spoken to them.
‘There are issues here – we really listen deeply to people and support them to develop the projects and structures they want.
‘A lot of people are requesting a network. The network here will be a social enterprise, an autonomous body run by people who live locally. It could be a pilot for other network structures. People are very keen to lock this into local government and the RE:generate process is at the heart of it. These people will take on social enterprise with the values and principles of community development at its heart. We will facilitate that but we won’t run it.
‘There’s not a day gone by when there haven’t been 20 or 30 people through the door at different times of the day. Fifty-two people have had enterprise ideas. Two or three have dropped out and 25 want to get involved. We have overachieved our expectations and met our target outputs with ease. Success will be dependent on a long term support structure, which is the social enterprise network.’

Peter Takaona, coordinator of the BME network and a refugee from Zimbabwe, sees Wigan Extreme as a way of strengthening the network and giving minority ethnic residents a more powerful voice in Wigan. The businesses will create income and give the network a higher profile.
‘We have had ten people [here] every day for three weeks. I have found it very educative. Some of our members have learned to stand up and talk. They feel comfortable to say what they want to say.
‘I feel happy because at last people are coming forward to say what they feel. I see that as positive community behaviour. I feel very confident about the businesses – it’s the only way forward.
‘Right now I am involved with citizenship issues and bringing people together. What I see as my duty is to round up people. By sitting on the board of the LSP I ask officers to hear from BME communities what their feelings are.’

John Clarke, head of operations, IAS Supported Employment, was put in touch with RE:generate by Wigan Economic Partnership.
‘We have had to balance between our day jobs and popping in [to Wigan Extreme] – we have covered most of the three weeks between us. We had three intensive days getting to know the group.
‘Our ideas have developed quite considerably. I am a trained social worker and teacher of social workers. If there’s been a shift for me, it’s been away from talking to people who want to work within a service, to selling a business project. It’s a big shift.
‘I know I can get the local authority or PCT on board. What I am keen to do is get the big ones on board like M&S who have good corporate responsibility.’

Joe Taylor, secretary, Billinge Local History Society:
‘I am interested in this as an opportunity for the community to get involved in looking after itself. I had never thought of a social enterprise because I am not business inclined or money motivated. This is a different way of doing it.
‘I can see there’s a dramatic difference when people get involved. This RE:generate way of looking at things really needs serious consideration. I am interested in seeing where you can go [with it]. Because I like the idea of it, I have put together what I think is a viable social enterprise so that money can go into a social enterprise network. That can then help bring other people in.
‘My particular social enterprise idea is about heritage. Wigan must keep its BLINT – buildings of local interest – list updated. It’s a big job to be done by council officers. I want to do it with the heritage network.
‘If you GPS information, link it to a digital photo and connect to the council’s geographic information system, it’s all on a digital map. Any application that affects a building of local interest is flagged up immediately. We want to do it as a pilot project with one township. We could do that over one year and the entire municipality over two years.’

Ed Ellis, first aid trainer, Wigan Council of Voluntary Health Services:
‘I had a meeting with Regenerate and we got involved in helping with their mailout. I read the leaflet and thought, I really want to go on that. I have been here all the time.
‘Before I came I was very afraid it was going to be pre-scripted. It’s been very reactive. They finish this by 7pm and produce stuff for us to use the next day, and they could only have produced it after we had gone home. It’s learner led and I have thoroughly enjoyed it.’

The social enterprise ideas

World in Wigan aims to use the talents of members of Wigan’s BME network to run social enterprises. These include an internet café serving a range of cultural food; an interpreting service; music and dance classes; and cookery training. Proceeds would be used to tackle poverty in Wigan and overseas. Interpreting services would meet existing demand locally – services are currently provided by agencies in Manchester.
Peter Takaona, coordinator of the BME network, suggests turnover could total £350,000 in three years. Suleyman Mohammad, who is organising the interpreting service, believes it can be started with minimal capital outlay, offering translation services in Kurdish, African languages, Arabic, Persian, Iranian, Russian, and Eastern European languages.

Inside Out Access Consultancy will employ people with disabilities as consultants to check that businesses and public agencies are meeting their legal obligations to provide access, but also meeting the needs of potential customers. It will advise businesses and public agencies on appropriate changes. The organisers have worked in supported employment for 35 years, and have been advised in this enterprise by the chief executive of Marks and Spencer and the area manager of W H Smith.

Dogtastic will provide ‘a dog training class with a difference’ for customers who would not usually take part in dog training – people with disabilities, for example. It will offer one to one training for dog owners, including home visits. The business expects to be self-sustaining within three years.

Ed Ellis plans to offer first aid training to public agencies in ways that meet the needs of different community groups. The aim is to offer 480 training places a year to local residents, and it is hoped a cash surplus of £42,000 can be generated within a year.

Joe Taylor aims to use GPS technology to help the local authority update its ‘BLINT’ list – buildings of local interest – so planners will be able to tell when a planning application affects a locally important building. The aim is to use members of Wigan’s heritage network to test the proposition in one area, and then extend it across the borough.

Wigan Extreme 2

2008-09-24T17:03:00.003+01:00

Along with the evaluation of the project, Julian Dobson attended the Wigan Extreme 2 event and interviewed a range of key participants over the course of the week. You can read the blog of the event here.

These interviews should be read alongside the evaluation to provide the views of some of Pulse's core members.

End of project perspective: Pam Stewart

2008-09-24T16:53:00.001+01:00

This summarised interview with Pam Stewart took place on 17 March 2008 and has been approved for publication

Perspectives on regeneration: Pam Stewart

Local reactions to Regenerate

I’m very, very disappointed by local people’s response to Regenerate. [Some] officers who have interpreted the work as being dangerous to them have closed ranks. Some local people who saw it as a fatted cow to milk and to come along and grab whatever resources were available, and then go away without entering into the process - because they didn’t get a handout, they’ve gone away saying that Regenerate doesn’t work and it’s all a load of crap.

I believe Regenerate works well, incredibly well with people that actually engage with the process, [who] take the time to listen and to become listeners. I think it’s galvanised people who were on the periphery of engagement. They’ve developed a ‘can do’ attitude which has replaced the ‘it’s pointless because nothing ever happens’ attitude.

I’m disappointed with the amount of people it’s actually managed to work with, and it isn’t the fault of Regenerate, it’s the fault of local organisations who’ve come along to chase the money, didn’t get the money and have gone away disappointed. The message they are putting out there is that it doesn’t work. I think that’s really, really sad but that’s a local thing, that’s not a Regenerate thing and I’m sure it must happen in other places. But it’s put a massive barrier and hurdle in terms of what Regenerate are doing.

Personal reaction to the project

As an individual I think that Regenerate have been a great source of knowledge, a great source of strength, a great source of resolve. When I’ve thought I wasn’t capable of doing something or I’ve been unsure about the possibilities of doing something, just one quick phone call [has] been a great source of strength and knowledge and support. As an individual, I feel I’ve gone on a personal journey and I’m much more confident now in my capacity than I was 18 months ago.

In terms of WAVE, as a director of WAVE I feel stronger and therefore, the organisation must reflect and be stronger. Unfortunately, the process of Regenerate is not suitable to work with the people at WAVE and it just wasn’t the right time. [But] any organisation that I am involved in has got to benefit from my increased capacity as an individual and my ability to learn and to link things.

Benefits for community activists and social enterprises

Some individuals who came along with an idea to the Extreme One event have now got up and running businesses that are working really, really well. We have a BME [group], they have come together and become influential in local politics, they’ve got their own organisation which is developing into a social enterprise and they’re all working very, very well together, they’re gaining strength from each other and from other members of Regenerate and Pulse, and so I think the strength is the infrastructure that’s developed in terms of support.

I think the business ideas for social enterprise are working very, very well. I think people who came with an idea have developed; four of them have developed into serious business. You’ve got four there that weren’t there 12 months ago and then you’ve also got some of the community led social enterprise stuff like Abbey Lane, you’ve got Christ Church Pennington who’ve come along today with the idea for a café, with the idea of doing work on the local park.

Effects of Wigan Extreme

I think Wigan Extreme was crucial in terms of changing people’s minds. As somebody born and bred in this area, I fully understand and I’ve engaged with [the listening process], [but] it’s a very unusual concept in an area of mining and factories and canals.

Historically around here, [people] don’t talk. If you’ve got a problem, you go home with your problem and you work it out or you go to your mum or your family and you work it out. People are not into sharing and I think the idea of neighbourhoods as they were 20 years ago are long gone. People see the value of the [listening] process, it’s just the difficulties in getting them to do it. So I think the amount of people that came through Wigan Extreme and had the opportunity to speak to so many people from different organisations locally, from national organisations, from regional organisations ... I think Wigan Extreme One was integral to changing people’s mindsets.

Effectiveness of work since Wigan Extreme

[Events] running in parallel with the work of Regenerate have created suspicion, and I think it’s muddied the water. [Concerns over] NRF and ERDF and network funding… have directly affected the operational capacity of Regenerate because local people, including myself, have been very, very involved in ensuring the future of the networks – so work with Regenerate has had to become peripheral. So people’s capacity to involve and engage have been lessened because of the local focus with the funding.

I think at economic regeneration, the people directly attached, Kevin Walsh, Christine, I think they’ve been wonderful in giving clear direction in terms of support, in terms of information sharing, in terms of opportunities to meet and discuss. I think the leader and the chief exec [of Wigan Council] have been very open, they have met on request and had full frank open discussions about the role of Regenerate in Wigan and what we saw as a way forward.

I think it’s at officer level in other departments that there have been problems and I think it’s people who 1) didn’t understand the process, 2) were concerned about their own jobs, post-March, due to funding issues. I think all that came together to work against Regenerate being incorporated as a workable process within established networks and structures.

What has been achieved over the 18 months?

I know of 30 people that I could name, that have benefited immensely in terms of capacity development, in terms of personal development, in terms of knowledge, in terms of confidence. I know that a lot more people are now familiar with what’s available within the council. People that came to Extreme One who now know which department they need to speak to. I think Regenerate have done that incredibly well. Today here [at Wigan Extreme Two] we have an opportunity to speak to bank managers, we have an opportunity to speak to national organisations and people are writing business plans that they would struggle to write, and they certainly wouldn’t have access to a professional to sit down and write a business plan with them.

I am concerned that other organisations who work locally deemed Regenerate a threat and weren’t just happy to continue to work in the same area, had to actually badmouth Regenerate, but that’s local and it’s usual and it always happens and I think that’s sad. I would like to be able to say now that there have been massive changes throughout the borough; there have been small pockets of huge change. There has been some borough wide benefit in terms of knowledge and opportunities and infrastructure within the community sector.

[If Regenerate were to go away] I think Pulse would survive.

Has Regenerate met the local authority’s aspirations for the project?

Well, it was to address the worklessness agenda that the funding came, but to address the worklessness agenda, you’ve got to build capacity. So I would say that they’ve certainly built capacity of people but they’ve also addressed the worklessness agenda in the social enterprises that are up and running. A lot of people are in paid work as a direct result but there are some people who are [working] in a voluntary capacity like myself. It’s not paid but we’re doing more now than we did. I’m involved with Pulse which I wasn’t involved with before. We’re building up a portfolio of personal development which will go towards a job in the future

If I was to start again tomorrow, I would work on a smaller area, concentrate on the area, do the listening process, follow the process through within a specific area, an estate or wherever it be and then use that as a model to take throughout the borough. I think the problem has been trying to do too much – and people’s interpretation of what had been said to them. I have been told that Regenerate promised us this, that and the other. I was at the same meeting and promises were never made. [People were told] there is the potential for funding from Esmee Fairbairn, there is the potential of funding from Tudor Trust. People’s interpretation was that there had been a promise of funding, a promise of money, and that disappoints me.

Lessons from the project

For the voluntary sector organisations in the borough, I think they need to work in partnership and not talk in partnership. I think they’re all really good at talking about partnership working but because of the reliance on funding streams, they don’t truly work in partnership and that really worries me.

I think certain members of the community who have engaged have benefited and have seen this as an opportunity which is what it was. But I think we’re very, very limited in the amount of people that have actually engaged. Right at the very beginning I said there are isolated pockets of good work going on but nothing ever links together. And I would say that continues. There are small isolated pockets of really good work and nothing gets joined up together, and I think that the community have to stand up and say, ‘This is not working or that’s not working or this is working, can we do it more?’ and they don’t, they just accept what’s given to them and it’s about time they started being proactive in what happens to them.

End of project perspective: Groundwork

2008-09-24T16:50:00.001+01:00

This summarised interview with Kevin Walsh took place on 14 March 2008 and has been approved for publication.

Perspectives on regeneration: Jacquie Mutch and Lynn Morris, Groundwork

Jacquie’s involvement with Regenerate

[All comments are Jacquie’s unless otherwise stated]

I got involved at the beginning from an operational point of view as a Youth Works manager. It was very much about how the process works within communities and how we can possibly link it into our projects, with a view to sustainability. I went to the training session on the process, and I also attended Wigan Extreme.

We decided we would look at one of those Youth Works projects in particular, in Worsley Mesnes. We already had a group of young people with some older members of the community, and [we would] look and see if we could pull it together really.

Impact of first Wigan Extreme event

It’s been a mixed bag really. We got quite a few people along to Wigan Extreme and I think there were some positive things that came out of Extreme with regards to getting people to think differently and that certainly aided the project. I think there were a lot of expectations that came out of that as well, and I think some of those expectations have maybe not been met.

The team are quite dynamic, aren’t they, and they come in and they really do get people to start believing that things can change. I’m not necessarily saying it’s Regenerate or the people’s fault, I just think communication wise, there’s a lot of high expectations from people who live in communities. They’ve got a passion to do something for the local community and when you’ve got people who come in who are quite dynamic and they buy into that - but then are the skills there to take them down this journey? Is the support there? After Wigan Extreme some work was done with Stephen and Julia in Worsley Mesnes with the group, and the group got the constitution finalised and they were encouraged to open a bank account, but there were some promises made as well that weren’t necessary delivered.

It was when you’ve opened this bank account, we’ll give you this money - you know it’s a minimal thing but just as a boost. [That money] didn’t arrive and trust went again, and then what happened is that the people who were at the Extreme who got really psyched up suddenly became very, very negative, because the perception was that they’d been let down, that they hadn’t necessarily received what they’d been promised.

I think what wasn’t dealt with was perceptions of what was said. The thing about the money, that definitely was said because I was actually there when they said it, and that never arrived. I think it’s the way in which things are said. The person saying it may not have meant it in that way, but it was certainly perceived in that way and what didn’t happen was clarification, for whatever reason.

Relationship between Regenerate and Groundwork

We’ve had a meeting with Regenerate and discussed this. We as Groundwork are going back to the community group and talking to key individuals. It isn’t one person’s fault or one group’s fault, it is just about trying to see if we can bring that back together again. Certainly Regenerate are open to making that link again and will provide support and they’ve taken on board what we’ve said when we’ve raised it with them. What’s being dealt with now is, can we build that trust back up in the community? We’re in the process of doing that and I’m optimistic that we will.

We’ve learned from that. We learn and we move on. I think we as Groundwork have to learn from this on the basis that the communication broke down. Maybe what we needed to do was remain in there and be more supportive as well. So, I think there’s lessons for us to learn in that as well.

Evidence of Regenerate’s impact

I haven’t seen very much evidence to be honest. There’s Pulse, the new group that has been started.

Lynn Morris: I’ve retained a relationship with Stephen and Julia on a strategic level and we’re doing forward planning, we don’t quite know where we’re going next year but we’ve got a meeting set up. [The Regenerate project] became a new animal halfway through. The whole process seems to have stepped up a gear and changed into something else.

Jacquie: When they first came in they were talking about going out into the communities, [doing] Listening Matters, going round talking to people, having these community animators. I actually don’t see any of that happening; that’s not what is happening out there. What’s happening is there’s an event like Extreme, you get lots of people together with ideas, then they work on the social enterprise ideas and go back into the communities. What’s happening is those social enterprises are coming together in Pulse and supporting one another, but this actual model of [being] ‘in communities’ isn’t existent, that is not existent in any of the communities that I work in.

Trust and buy-in

People weren’t buying into it. The theory behind it, yes.

Lynn: I think had the LEGI bid been successful they could have employed animators then, but it failed. Members of staff here were approached to use the [listening matters] model as a way of consultation. Only one actually bought into it and I can’t say that was 100%, we’ve had members of staff who’ve said, “I don’t want to do this” and whether that’s been reflected in other organisations I don’t know.

Jacquie: I think there are some issues around the fact that it’s about working with communities and building up trust within the communities, and going knocking on doors and going to somebody’s house and having a cup of tea and asking them what they really care about and asking this, that and the other. A lot of people have seen that as being unrealistic.

They don’t have time, but I don’t just think that it’s about that. It’s like cold calling. You put the phone down, you shut the door, end of - and there hasn’t been any evidence that it can work.

Lynn: I think if they’ve got one community that had worked and adopted that model and been a kind of pilot, I think people would probably have bought into it. But it was almost an intangible product that they were trying to sell across too wide a patch to too many people.

Has anything changed because of Wigan Extreme?

Jacquie: The people I see, the people on Pulse, it’s the same small group of people and they’ve all got their own thing that they’re doing and they’re interested in. I don’t see anything other than that anywhere really.

Positives and negatives

Lynn: I think the negative is there don’t appear to have been enough people to do what was initially intended.

Jacquie: Two people can’t do everything, can they? I think you’ve got two people who are quite strategic people and maybe what they needed was the strategic person talking to economic regen, talking to all these different people but then actually somebody delivering something on the ground as well.

A lot of time has been spent strategically talking to the right people in the right places but how much has been spent actually developing the pods of people? There’s buy-in at economic regeneration at a strategic level for something - but is it happening on the ground?

Lynn: We want to work with them and we want to do something very positive in communities, but we don’t know what the model is. So we’ve arranged a meeting to sit down and discuss how we take this forward because I don’t think the original model has worked for us.

Jacquie: It’s the practical application of it that we’re struggling with and there’s a lot of people buying into an idea at every level. So you’ll go to Wigan Extreme and people will buy into the idea and strategically there are obviously people buying into the idea, but where is the practical application? That’s what we’re struggling with because we are practical application people, we are people working on the ground in communities.

The Pulse network and the future

Staff members of mine go along to that and again, there are a lot of promises around what Pulse is going to do. What’s good about Pulse is that they support one another and I think the people who go to Pulse get a lot from that, in that they are with like minded people who are struggling with the same struggles. But then when you talk to Steve and Julia, that actually Pulse are going to be this group that do this and do that, again, it’s buying into that idea, what it is going to be, what it could be.

Lynn: What we want is some hard evidence and that’s what I feel we haven’t got throughout this 18 months. I don’t know what the original outcomes were but I would like to know, have they been met?

Jacquie: They’ve obviously been re-funded and for me, as a partner who struggles to get money from economic regeneration and has to prove every single target that we achieve, I would like to think that they have achieved the targets in order to get the money.

Lynn: I’ve spoken to people who were on the original group that met way, way back when Regenerate first came in and none of them are any wiser as to what this project’s about and their initial reservation was, well it sounds good but it’s a bit woolly. I don’t think that’s changed.

Jacquie: We want it to work and we want to see it working and we want it to work in the communities that we’re working in; we’re not seeing it happen. So it’s not that we’re not happy with the process, what we’re not happy with is we’re not seeing any results.

The lessons

[The key lesson is] communication and how things are communicated, and how things are done from a very front line operational [perspective]. This is all about Listening Matters but they don’t seem to listen. One of the things that’s come through from communities is that there’s this Regenerate way and that’s the way of doing it - and they’re actually not listening to what communities are saying, to the point that communities are actually getting quite confrontational and it’s, ‘no, we don’t want it.’

I don’t want to be really negative because I really do want to see this work. I think if it works then this is going to be massive for the people, the problem is, 18 months in, it’s not, and I think what I’m feeling is frustration more than anything. It’s frustration.

End of project perspective: Kevin Walsh

2008-09-24T16:46:00.001+01:00

This summarised interview with Kevin Walsh took place on 17 March 2008 and has been approved for publication.

Perspectives on regeneration: Kevin Walsh, 17 March 2008

Development of the Regenerate project since Wigan Extreme, 2007

I think [it] developed [as] we anticipated, bearing in mind we changed our thinking after about six months. The point is that what has remained is the focus on creating social enterprises, but [there’s] also a recognition that there are other things that came out of that piece of work that are valuable in their own right.

The Wigan Extreme event is an interesting part of that because it was a recognition [that] if we need to achieve our target [of] creating social enterprise, helping develop social enterprise, we need to adopt almost a radical approach which is what Wigan Extreme certainly seemed like. In fact it seemed like a barking mad idea to take over a place for 20 days and expect people to turn up every day and to participate in some really intense pieces of work. But at the end of it you either trust people to deliver or you don’t, and we trusted that they would deliver and they did deliver. I think the feedback that we’ve got from various people who participated in it was extremely positive - to the extent that the current Wigan Extreme [in March 2008] is a result of the faith we have in the whole process. Afterwards I said this is something we should really look to repeat at least on an annual basis [so it] becomes almost like a major event in the calendar for Wigan.

Positives from Wigan Extreme

The commitment that people made from the community was one positive. It was 20 days, there were people working there and working weekends and coming in at weekends. I think the really encouraging thing was it wasn’t the same old faces who were participating, it was new groups, new people who’d never been involved in the community activities that have been traditionally supported in the borough.

What came out of that was Pulse, which is an interesting by-product. It’s not what we actually commissioned [Regenerate] to deliver but I think you have to recognise that you cannot just create social enterprises and business plans without some form of support network in there.

I think the other thing that has come out of it is a recognition [that] some of the approaches that have been taken do have value in other areas. We’re looking to think about how we could use some of those approaches in other areas. We know worklessness is an issue and incapacity benefit in particular, but there’s no shortage of provision to help people get back to work. What there is a shortage of is people going into that provision. There’s not a shortage of people in terms of community action and community engagement, but I call it community engagement with a purpose. I think in the past a lot of local authorities have done community engagement because they have been funded to do community engagement. You need an end product.

There has to be a recognition that there needs to be some way of referring people into this process that will hopefully either improve their skills so they can get a job or take them through confidence building or whatever it takes. If you look at the traditional way of working, you get some money, you decide to fund some work. At the front you’ll do some engagement work to try and recruit people into your programme. Then you might do some information, advice and guidance work to try and define what kind of help they would need. Then you give them the help that they need, and then you have some employer engagement at the back end to try and help them secure employment. You could have 20 projects in an authority, all working in that silo without any cross referencing and cross referral.

Reactions to the Regenerate project

There’s people who very quickly can switch onto what it is that is being talked about here and they very quickly recognise the value of it, and there’s people who don’t. It’s a binary thing, there’s no mid way on this. There have been instances where there’s negativity towards the project and that has been quite vocal at times. There’s been conflict in terms of what it’s about and the approach.

Success in meeting targets and objectives

I think it started off with one way of working and we recognised very quickly that it wasn’t working the way it should do, so we’ve changed it, which is the result of things like the Wigan Extreme events. From the reports we’ve had they will hit the targets of creating the social enterprises that we’ve asked them to create. But what it’s done that wasn’t in the actual service level agreement was this undercurrent almost of social enterprise activity, which is really what we wanted to see, but it’s difficult to put that into a service level agreement that’s got hard and fast government targets. It’s a softer outcome that’s come out of this and that’s very good.

I think individuals [within the local authority] are pleased with the outcomes. It’s a question of recognising the value of a social enterprise and I think there’s a lot of people in Wigan who don’t quite understand the value of what a social enterprise can bring, or a strong social enterprise sector. I think government decided to bring that higher up the agenda. Wigan is a very pragmatic, traditional, down to earth sort of place and I think social enterprise is almost seen as something that’s not the kind of thing that Wiganers do.

What a lot of people don’t get or feel uncomfortable with [is that] using community engagement [to get people into work] is not the traditional way of doing things. I think there is now a recognition within the authority that the traditional way of doing things has not worked. So we do have to look at different approaches, different ways of doing things.

Reflections on Listening Matters

I think people said, yes, we might benefit from the training, but we still need to have our own agenda because at the end of the day people are funded to deliver things. It’s that leap of faith almost to say we need to get away from that. It’s that silo approach again. I think there’s going to be resistance, it’s a different way of thinking and you know, it might turn out that is not the way we should be going anyway.

The project’s achievements over 18 months

Obviously it has achieved what it set out to achieve in terms of the hard and fast service level agreement. What we paid them to do, they have delivered in terms of social enterprise development. Social enterprises [are] being supported to set up, that side of it was not part of the remit but does seem to have emerged from this work, which is good. It’s not just applicable for creating social enterprise, it can be applicable in other areas as well and that’s the key benefit to us that’s come out of the project. I think we’re very keen to retain the support and services of Regenerate, in a different capacity obviously, moving forward.

Going back to this community engagement with a purpose type of approach, [it’s] to help us develop and support us in implementing that. I think our biggest problem is participation: how do we solve that? Potentially Regenerate has a big role to play, in first of all defining what it is. I’m not so sure about actually delivering it. It’s having that good relationship and the feedback that’s been coming back to say this has worked, this has not worked, can we sit down, have a coffee and discuss various things? It’s that informal continuous dialogue that’s been ongoing.

Obviously we have a quarterly monitoring report and quarterly invoices and there’s a very formal reporting structure, but that informal dialogue has been so valuable and in terms of managing this kind of thing [that] is really, really important. If you start putting things down on paper and a template as to how it should be done then you lose the softer information, the softer intelligence that really is what does make a difference. You need flexibility but you need the dialogue to get that intelligence.

What would you do differently?

[Staff] have a day job to do - we’ve got to accept the fact that a lot of stuff that people are doing within the council has a statutory obligation. You can’t say we’ll stop doing that because we have to do it as a council. So if we’re going to do it again, perhaps we need to consider how we resource it and how we guarantee that we’ll have the people we need to deliver it.

Has there been evidence of successful delivery?

An NRF project is quite prescriptive in terms of what has to be delivered and the evidence for that delivery. There is a team of people who independently monitor that. Quarterly reports come in which I then see and incorporate into various reporting structures within the council. So if the people who are presenting me with the evidence are happy with the evidence that’s been provided then that is OK. They would have highlighted to me to say [if] the evidence isn’t there, and at the end of the day we always have the option of going back into the project and saying well, yes, you might be saying you did these 25 social enterprises, but you need to prove it to us. We have the option of doing some form of auditing process.

How happy are you personally with the project?

I feel very good about it. I think there’s been some really interesting and pioneering work. Stephen keeps putting my name forward for other local authorities to say what I think of the work that’s gone on. I always give an honest assessment to those people so it’s good to be associated with the project, it does have a recognition as being a successful piece of work, and that’s accepting the fact that other people have been critical of it. [It’s] a publicly funded piece of work and it should be open to scrutiny.

How can wider buy-in be achieved?

I think if we did take the community engagement type of approach forward and we looked to employ people specifically to go out and recruit people into programmes, and your judgment of success is the number of people who get referred into something, [that] would be an interesting thing to take forward. So you could go out and say, your job is to get people to volunteer for Pathways to Work and we’ll measure you on that. But we’ve no guarantee that at the end of that process they’re going to get a job, and that is quite a difficult thing. But we do have some option to use discretionary money for that kind of thing - and that may well once again cause people to say, is that really a good use of resources, should we not be focussing on the end product rather than the beginning? That’s a debate we have to have.

Regenerate I think have informed our thinking as to how we should approach this, but how we take the work forward would have to be subject to a separate commissioning exercise.

End of project perspective: Regenerate Trust

2008-09-24T16:40:00.002+01:00

This summarised interview with Stephen Kearney and Julia Olsen took place on 19 March 2008 and has been approved for publication.

Perspectives on regeneration: Stephen Kearney and Julia Olsen, 19 March 2008

Development of the Regenerate project and Listening Matters in Wigan

Stephen: When we started, I think we were concerned about taking [this] piece of work on because our work has always been based at the grass roots of communities. This was quite different because we were very interested in how Wigan Council would take to the work and how that work could start to influence the way people in the local authority operated. It fitted with the broad agenda of Regenerate Trust, but we also wanted to lay down a marker, we wanted to stop delivering services but actually get into a local authority and start looking at how it could transform the way public services were delivered.

The idea was that we would sit down with economic development and identify a whole range of departments and organisations that would benefit from the Listening Matters training. We started that and I think we did quite well; we trained a number of organisations and departments and individuals and we went into rounds of meetings where we explained the process to people. What we started to find was there was resistance to additional workloads because people were very busy, but we also started to note that there was resistance to the impact this would have in terms of power and people’s roles within the community.

I think the fact that people were busy and didn’t want something new was hugely significant. I think though that as we started to run, different reps from different forums that were sitting on the local strategic partnership were starting to talk about the work and they started to want the work to bed in. Over the 18 month period we had to switch tack halfway through and start to look at getting people into something that would resemble what we call a community holding team. That’s a range of people [who] want to develop projects, social enterprises etc to tackle concerns they’ve got in the community. When we got to the point where we decided to do that, to capture interest and actually draw people into some kind of process, there was a sense around the community that we were completely shifting tack because Listening Matters hadn’t bedded in and therefore hadn’t worked. It’s nonsense – I spent today with three key organisations in Wigan explaining from scratch the Listening Matters process and they’re really interested.

Julia: I think the indications are that the listening will be picked up, but by and large not by agencies in the communities… unless it’s a system that is actually adopted by the departments collectively and becomes part of Wigan’s way of working. One of the people who came in [to Wigan Extreme 2] with their enterprise idea [is] currently on a training programme with Adult Services, which is around how people connect into the community in order to enable people with disabilities to participate in the community. It was interesting that the person introducing the workshop was saying how amazing Wigan is to be having this kind of approach.

Stephen: I think the listening was bedding in and we had Wigan Extreme One and that was very successful, and that really agitated people, and activated people in different ways. At one level, people in economic development and the more forward thinking departments of the authority were very excited by it. I think organisations like the CVS and particularly Simon Dale’s department in the local authority were fundamentally challenged by it. It saddens me that Simon didn’t pick up on this work when we first came, look at it from a very strategic point of view and start to work with us more pro-actively, and I do wonder if it had been introduced through his department and if he’d had control over it, whether it might have been more acceptable.

Project ideas before Wigan Extreme One

Stephen: We did work in Scholes, for example, and we worked with Groundwork. In terms of sowing seeds for social enterprise, [our] key ideas were related to how Groundwork could completely change and enhance their operation in the northwest. They were very keen on exploring the kind of processes that we use, they made it very clear that they wanted the Listening Matters process and very clear that they wanted to work with us to develop that, so the whole of Groundwork had an idea about sustaining its projects and developing as a community engagement organisation using Regenerate’s process.

When I report back to my trustees, I’ll be saying that it is a very successful project where transformation at personal, local, and wider society level has really taken place. Even people that are turning their backs on us and saying this is rubbish, I would say we’ve fundamentally influenced the way they work. I think the work that we do has been tried and tested over many years and it’s time we all grew up together and used the work and moved forward.

Achievements of Wigan Extreme One

Stephen: Wigan Extreme One for us was the name that we gave to the first key community holding team in Wigan. So for us it was an important milestone. This particular team has been called Pulse and we would see Pulse as an organisation that will be really important in terms of the delivery of this work. That’s why I’m hoping that organisations like Groundwork continue to play their role and support organisations like PULSE.

I’d say that [the projects that emerged from Wigan Extreme One] go from being fledgling and weak through to quite well developed. People really started to come together in August, some businesses have actually been set up, some people are trading.

Julia: I think it’s important also not to forget that a factor in developing enterprise is personal development. There are specific outputs in relation to organisations that are on the way to being established, but there are also outcomes in terms of the individuals who’ve actually got a better understanding of what the possibilities might be. They have learnt things; they might have even learnt that actually the enterprising way is not for them. The fact is they’ve gone through a process and have made some choices and decisions about something that they wouldn’t have thought about before.

Stephen: I’m delighted with the outcomes because over a hundred people have got really,engaged in social enterprise. In other words, we’ve trusted our own process of developing a “holding team” .

Julia: We’ve shown real strength and achievement because the range of people who [have] become involved have ranged from really young to pretty old. [A] complete range of different abilities, skills, background, ethnicity and I think people have actually exchanged with each other, interacted with each other, learnt from each other and, without exception, have felt empowered to move things forward at the pace that they want to do it.

Relationship with Groundwork

Stephen: Groundwork is a large organisation, they’ve come out of an environmental services history and culture, they’ve got more and more involved over the years in community development, community engagement and youth services. I don’t think it’s Groundwork’s strength: when it comes to them actually delivering people to the work and sustaining that and supporting us to sustain that, it hasn’t been straightforward. Now it’s not a criticism of Groundwork, it’s an observation and what it tells me about Groundwork is that they need to work much more closely with us, particularly if they’re planning on using the Listening Matters process.

Julia: I think one of the factors with Groundwork’s work is that in their Youth Works projects they focus on working with the young people, and wherever projects concentrate on one grouping in isolation, sooner or later there always seem to be conflicts. I would say the learning from me on some of these different projects is that as you get to know more about them, that factor of not having a holistic engagement strategy that relates to the whole community, is why a lot of them fall down or don’t do as people intend them to do.

Reflections on Wigan Extreme Two

Stephen: I think it’s been really important. I wasn’t completely happy running Wigan Extreme Two because I don’t like working with underspends because it normally means that you’ve got to rush what you’re doing.

[The] black and ethnic minority group reshaped itself into the World in Wigan, in Wigan Extreme One. They went off to work with the CVS to develop that, I think by default without really understanding what was happening to them.. Getting involved in Wigan Extreme Two I think has had quite a major impact on black and ethnic minority groups in the area.

Because we’ve advertised it widely and there was the impact of word of mouth from the previous Wigan Extreme, a lot of people from BME communities and other voluntary groups have attended: very day [we’ve had] 30-odd people.

Because the social enterprise work that we’re doing relates so closely to working neighbourhoods, we’ve been able to lock this work into what’s about to happen [with the Working Neighbourhoods Fund]. So I think we’re now influencing the forward planning process for Wigan. So, I’d say the work’s been hugely significant.

Julia: I think it’s really challenged people’s thinking and challenged the sort of the culture of small scale short term things, and it’s actually encouraged people to think more strategically in terms of how you do keep things going, if you’ve got a good idea or you’re meeting a real need, how you make sure that you can continue to meet that need. It’s been very interesting to see how different people have responded to that challenge but sometimes, for the first time, actually understood what the challenge is.

Stephen: We’ve had Royal Bank of Scotland here, we’ve had experts from different fields that have been able to really support people, we’ve even had wi-fi internet access so people have been able to do their market research, so I think in some ways it’s been a bit of a more of a high grade product this time.

The thing I’m unhappy about is the attitude of the detractors who understandably at the moment are feeling threatened, because there’s lots of changes in terms of funding. But in terms of public service, I think it is our absolute duty at the moment, all of us, whether we’re national charities or local authority departments, to engage with the grassroots and support this work and really start to examine how we all move forward together. I’m afraid this is a bit tough but to sit on the sidelines, criticising this work and not rolling sleeves up and coming in and finding out and getting involved in it, is nothing short of irresponsible.

Key lessons from the project

Stephen: I would say I’ve reaffirmed my confidence and trust [in our process]. I think that’s been the greatest lesson for me and in future, I’m going to trust that process even more and particularly trust people from the grassroots of communities. We’ve trusted the grassroots of these communities and the results are plain to see, I’m really pleased about that.

Julia: I suppose we threw out a challenge almost to local authorities to actually pick up on this kind of approach and really look at what engagement is about, and we’ve worked to promote an idea and an experience and a process that could really help them do that.

We’ve ended up working, unusually for us, much more with agencies than actually working with people in the grassroots, and what’s interesting is that now, 18 months down, we’re working quite effectively or very effectively with people in the grassroots. I think we have challenged some of the structures and institutional thinking, which was quite painful to have to do. You’ve now got people from grassroots communities actually taking action, taking responsibility for things, their capacity has been built …and it’s really going well.

What would you do differently?

Stephen: I’m tempted to say that I would spend more time with Simon Dale because he’s a powerful guy, he’s a very thoughtful guy, he’s very reflective and I think he has the kind of work we do really at his heart. So my sense is that I should really have spent more time with Simon.

I think that people in the voluntary sector are really struggling with process, structure, strategy, delivery mechanisms, and I think that the government and politicians are getting bored with waiting for the voluntary sector to emerge, to be strong in terms of service delivery [and] social enterprise. I think with all the money that’s sloshing around at the moment, what we’re likely to see is only the most prepared within the voluntary sector able to successfully deliver services, while everybody’s bickering at the grassroots because of lack of leadership. I think the voluntary sector’s ill prepared and the private sector is going to come flying in and start to pick at funding and money that really should be used by the voluntary and community sector. So as the chief exec of a national voluntary organisation I’m very worried about that and a key lesson I’ve learnt and I would have done differently is to have spent more time with local bodies to try and persuade them that they really have to re-look at what they’re doing.

I was very tempted to do some listening. There was a time when I was thinking, what we normally do is we deliver this work, we go out and we listen, no matter what level of the organisation we’re in. Part of me thinks that still would have been good, to lead the way to show it working.

The flip side of that was that in some communities like Scholes, Barbara Nettleton didn’t want anything to happen without her permission - that was important. Also people like Kevin Walsh were saying you’re here to facilitate this, not to deliver it. So at an operational level, part of me just wanted to get in there to show that it works, but I think with such a tough community, and I’m talking about Wigan and Leigh broadly, I think that was a tough nut to crack in 18 months. If we get more contracts here, that’s probably work that we might do more of because people trust us more now.

Should the local authority have done anything differently?

Stephen: I think the local authority is such a complex beast that if you’ve got the buy-in from one department, I think that’s enough. You know the machinations and the political squabbles that go on between departments over who controls budgets, that’s up to them really, we’ve got to keep clear of that.